#11: Karl Egloff (Mountain Athlete) - Balancing family with racing up the world's tallest peaks

I remember once I was climbing the south wall of Aconcawa we were late later than we thought it was really cold, about 40 degrees Celsius below zero my friend, who is my rope partner on this expedition, he started to struggle and he said Carl cut the rope. It was the very first time I was worried we're not going to make it. I was hearing my son in a kind of a voice telling me like that I knew him and I was seeing him in chapters in life when he was a grown up man looking back and dad was there sitting in the chair and I remember my son looking into this empty chair and I said no, no, I have to be in this chair, I have to be there. I cannot give up right now. My kids gave me strength. My kids gave me a reason to live.

Welcome to the athlete dad podcast, where we explore the intersection of physical pursuits and fatherhood. I'm your host, ben Gibson, and each episode will dive deep into topics like modeling, ambition, achieving balance and intentional integration around athletic passions and parenting. If you're seeking to accomplish your goals as an athlete while crushing it as a parent, then you've come to the right place. It is so good to be back behind the microphone for another season of the athlete dad. I am so excited for the improvements and the new ideas that are dropping this year. We're really going to blow things up and I'm so grateful to have you along listening for the ride as we continue to build this community of the athlete dad. A lot of this stuff, a lot of these new ideas, we're going to be sharing and announcing on our Instagram, that's, at the athlete dad, so make sure you're following us there, and also through our email list, which you can sign up for on our website, theathletedadcom, where you'll also get access to exclusive content, giveaways, behind the scenes looks and more. All that said, most importantly, I am thrilled to bring you our first guest of the year, who is an absolute legend and incredible human being in so many ways. Today you're hearing my conversation with Carl Igolov. You can find him on Instagram at atcarlwithaKigolov. You go check out his Instagram because Carl is a world-renowned Swiss mountaineer based in Ecuador and, yes, we will unpack that a bit in the conversation. He also has incredible success in mountain biking and trail running and adventure racing, but I think Carl is most well known for his mountaineering prowess, specifically his speed ascents, and we're going to talk about something called an FKT or fastest known time, if you're not familiar with the term, which is basically the fastest provable time that someone has completed an objective, and in this sense, we're talking about speed climbing records. Carl has broken eight different speed climbing records, world records and this is not speed climbing like you may have seen in the Olympics, where they're just like speed climbing up a wall in a matter of seconds. This is speed climbing on some of the world's tallest peaks. Carl's records includes speed ascents and descents on peaks like 20,000 foot Makalu in Nepal in a mere 18 hours, on Kodopaxi in Ecuador, a 19,000 foot peak in an hour and 36 minutes, and on Denali 20,000 foot Denali in 11 hours and 44 minutes, not to skip over the rest of them, but these are peaks like Elbrus in Aconcagua and Cerro Plomo and Killa Manjaro, and just for some context on how fast that is, I was on Denali for a month, basically climbing the mountain for three weeks, and, granted, carl goes up and acclimates, but Carl went from base camp to summit and back down on foot, no skis, in 11 hours and 52 minutes. He climbed Kodopaxi in an hour and a half. So slap 30 minutes onto this conversation and that's how long it took him to go from base camp to summit to base camp on a 19,000 foot Kodopaxi In Makalu 17 hours, like it's unfathomable. And, most importantly, all this without supplemental oxygen. The world's greatest understatement is to say that Carl is very, very fast at climbing mountains. His next project is to continue to try to knock off all the speed records on the tallest peak on each of the seven continents, by attempting to break the speed record on Everest, which is also insanely fast. Carl runs an international guiding company, cumbretur's in Ecuador, which specializes in hiking and climbing in Ecuador but also all over the world. And, most importantly, carl is a father and a husband and in this episode we learn about how Carl grew up in the mountains, climbing as a kid with his own dad. He has this amazing amount of training he has to get to. So we hear about how he balances the incredible workload he has to do for these feats with his desire to be a present and engaged dad, which I know you will all get a ton of value out of hearing about. And, of course, we'll hear about some of his incredible stories, about his climbs, about his struggles and, above all else, his perspective on goals and life, which personally I always find to be the most helpful. And, as always, pictures and resources are linked in the show notes, which you will definitely want to check out to add some perspective to these climbs and these feats. And so, without further ado, please enjoy season two's kickoff with the amazing Carl Igloff. Carl, I am so excited to have you here. Just want to express my gratitude and thank you, especially right after the holidays coming to have this conversation. So thank you so much, excited to have you join the conversation today.

Thank you, ben. It's a pleasure and I really, really, really feel very privileged to talk to you and, yeah, especially what we are talking today, it's so fun because we have a lot of things to talk about.

Absolutely, and it's an often unexplored aspect of, I think, an athlete's life is to go into the role that they play when they're not wearing the athlete cap you know, the father, the husband, the friend, all the other things that make up the majority of our lives. I would love to help kind of set context for our listeners so they get an idea of what life looks like for you today, and I typically think of this in terms of like two buckets there's life inside the home and there's life outside of the home. So what are you really excited about that's happening inside of your home right now? And then, what are you really excited about that's happening outside of your home?

Well, I really think the most important thing is to have what you mentioned, like both lives On the end. You're not living just inside your house. You have to keep living and doing your things and your projects and your sports and have the right balance. So I think on both sides you need to have this motivation. So right now, of course, it's Christmas time. It's beautiful to be at home. The children, they are shining their eyes with all this presence and all these dreams and decoration and stories and songs and everything. So it's definitely a beautiful time to be at home. And on the other side, of course, next year is just around the corner, so a lot of projects are getting built and you are already preparing training schedules, troubles and everything. So on both sides, a lot of things are moving already for the next year.

We were chatting before we started recording and I thought it was just a great example of this balance that you talk about. You've just celebrated Christmas with your family at home, and then you went on this amazing climb, one of your favorite mountains. Could you tell us a bit more about what you were getting up to on this particular climb?

Yes, of course. Well, on this time of the year we are here in Ecuador in the middle of the high season, so right now it's a lot of tourism here in Ecuador climbing our volcanoes. It's the best time of the year to climb them. So it's busy time and to have the right balance to be at home and, on the same time, don't miss anything with the kids and in school and all the presentations and everything. But I'm glad I had a couple of days where I could go to the mountains and have this amazing freedom on the mountain too. And one of the most beautiful climbs here in Ecuador is by far Antisana, which is the fourth highest peak here in Ecuador. But it's a very broken glacier where you have to kind of looking. Every single time you're climbing the mountain is a different road. You have to check where the crevasses are holding or jump over bridges on crevasses and climb some beautiful slopes. So it's definitely as a guide. You are on the element. You have to just think a little bit, where should I come down? And you have to track the road, you have to put wangs on the road and everything. So this is definitely one of the most beautiful times here in Ecuador.

People typically hit the top three, so the fourth highest is probably one that is a bit more untraveled than the other ones, I imagine.

Well, yes, the highest mountain here in Ecuador is Chiporazo, which is the only 6,000 meter mountain here we have, and then the second one is the fifth most climbed mountain in the world, which is Coropaxi, and it's the emblematic, very well known, symbolic mountain in Ecuador where normally people always say, ah, coropaxi, ecuador, like the Galapagos, ecuador. So definitely, coropaxi is a huge, a huge motivation for the people to come to Ecuador, but has been closed for the last two years. It's very active the volcano so we have some toxic air around there. It's still closed for tourism, so a lot of people coming to Ecuador are doing other mountains instead of Coropaxi, and this helps also to know other mountains, mountains that normally nobody climbs right now. They are in the bucket list, so Cayambe and Antisa, anilinesas and all those beautiful mountains that we have right now are very crowded on this time of the year.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and it's something I don't think we think about often. I mean, you know, here in Oregon, all, all of our mountains are volcanoes too, right, I think it's kind of a pretty common thing up and down north and South America, but not not true in a lot of other places, like, you know, the Rockies or whatnot, but we often forget that they are still active. You know, we see these beautiful glaciated peaks and it's like it's actually still growing. It's still moving. There's a lot of activity and Hopefully it doesn't completely, you know, pull a mountain, st Helens, and and blow itself up. But you know that that's a, yeah, really interesting insight that it's been closed for a few years. I know that you've been, you know, an athlete for pretty much your entire life. You've been competing in mountain biking and trail running and, and now your latest is really the mountaineering aspect of it. Where did these athletic feats, this ambition to be out in the mountains like? Where did that start for you in your life?

Well, in my case it was. It was simple because my father was a mountain guy, so he took me out there when I was very little I don't even remember how old I was, I was definitely not even in an age to take a to say no, actually, he just took me up to the mountains and I was always following His groups and he always told me like okay, if you want to come with me, you will be not claiming for for food or for beverages, or just let us stop or go slower If you are coming with a group, you are just to follow like a soldier and be quiet and just, yeah, this is, these are the rules. So I always Was very quiet. I was on the, on the very back of of the, of the, of the tourist line, and Of course I was growing up with this Ambience and guiding and talking languages and everything and of course I was growing and getting better and getting better in shape. So one day my father said okay, I cannot just hold you back. You should go to the other peak and to the other peak and to the other peak, just be back to the car when everyone else is back. So I started to explore and I was starting to look where are my limits and start to climb free, solo, without a rope, here and there. And my father was an Untypical father, because normally as a father you always hold your kids back and say like, take care, you're gonna fall down, you're gonna break something. And my father was always like, if you cannot climb this, you won't become a guide. So I said, yeah, that, but it's a bit dangerous in a said like, if you don't risk you, you are not. You are not a good mountain guide. So I was always being challenged by him, and this is why I we say here in Spanish I have more stripes as a tiger.

Because yeah.

I, we grew up with the mountains and it was beautiful. So every weekend, every weekend, I was asking him To take me with him after school, and for me, on Saturday was always a venture day. And so when I was in very early age, I always my biggest wish was to become an international mountain guide, and this is how I came Actually to the scene of mountaineering, which is not typical, because normally here in Ecuador we look to the mountains as the Nepali or other Chinese. They are for tourists more than for the locals, and this is how I grew up. When you went up to a hut or to a refuge, you normally were Talking in English or French or German, but normally you you never talked in Spanish, and this changed today a lot. You have more than 60. 70% of the climbers are locals, but those back or those days it was just for a foreigner.

I love that Perspective that he had and I feel like that. You know, I hear this a lot when I'm talking with folks around their relationship with their own Bothers and then also the. You know the dynamic of how parents kind of show up today and I do agree there's this I Don't think coddled is the right word but I feel like we are much more protective of our kids. We we don't let we don't let them off the there on a long leash, we don't let them wander out and explore in the outdoors as much, and I certainly had that as a kid myself. But I do find a little bit of hesitation when I think about that for my own kids. And I just love the. I love the visual of you going out, your dad pushing you to go climb these peaks, climb them alone, get that experience, not just to be a mountain guide, but like what that did for you as a person and how that helped you grow and develop. I'm sure there's definitely like a level of maturity that you had to really develop as a young guy to to be able to go Do those things on your own. What, when you think about that, that perspective that your dad had with you? How do you think about translating that same idea to your own kids? Do you feel like you show up that same way, or are there things that you would want to do differently with your own kids?

Well, this is an amazing question, then, because, as an as a professional athlete, as a mounted guide, of course, our biggest wish is our kids to follow our path and you want to take them up to all the summits and just to understand your world and why you are so fascinated when you are go out there, even if you are doing the 500 times the same peak. And they are always asking me about that. You already climbed that mountain and I said, yeah, I climbed it many, many years ago for the first time. So, but it's every time and a new time and new, a new chapter, and as a dad, I always have been very, very anxious my kids to hate this world like I don't want to go out there, it's too cold, it's. I don't want to walk, I prefer to stay at home. So I have my wife. She's also mountaineer so I was always very conservative taking my kids up to the mountains. So I was always, always waiting until they asked me to bring them up there and not force them in any point. Of course, when we are out there, I Cannot Hold them back. I, of course, if they want to climb the rock, just go for it. If you're gonna fall, you, you know your risks and I'm definitely not the one holding you back. And I Try to teach them how to do it. I teach them how to run, how to descend, how to climb and everything, but always Waiting until they ask me. Not forcing, because normally dads are the one they want their kids to do things. They want to do it, but that the kids they probably don't want to do it. But you, of course, they want to make dad happy and they are going into this adventure, but on halfway they are not having fun anymore. And then it's that who is pushing them and like, hey, we are out here and we have to do this and we are so close and on the end they're gonna hate it. So this is for me so important as a dad that I'm always Hold myself back, and the best way to do that is to train before that means I go out there alone. I.

I.

I do my session before I'm tired. I've come back home and when I'm I'm completely tired, I'm much more flexible with their decisions. So I I'm, I already did my workout, so I don't have to do any workout anymore, so they are not the reason I have to go out there. This is very important what I'm saying, because, as an athlete, sometimes you say, okay, I'm wasting my day, they are not walking fast, and I have to do my performance today, and so on, and it's not about you, it's about them, and this is very important to understand. There are two different things.

I'm laughing because that's totally me, I'm. I'm the latter of like trying to bring my kids along of my workouts, because I know it's important, I want to spend that time with them, I want to give them the exposure. But I'm also Really frustrated when I'm like guys, I'm supposed to be in zone three, I'm in barely in zone one right now, like we've got to get going, we've got five more hours, no, we can't stop for snacks anymore. And so that's a really great tip, I think, is, yeah, I get the workout in it, in it advanced, and then go back to give them the exposure, so that you're much more flexible. That's a really, really good point and I I think it's it's hard because there's a, there's a, there's a balance that we try to strike to of like I want to give you this exposure, not just because of I love it and I want you to experience what I love about it, but also I'm sure you believe that there are valuable Lessons to be learned from being in the mountains. So that balance of like how much we we do kind of need to push them a little bit, is really tough and it's different at every age, I find, and and you've got, you know fairly young kids. But getting getting a little older, like how do you think about that aspect of when to start pushing them a little bit more to do hard things, to be uncomfortable, to be cold, to be a little hungry, versus when to pull back, like, do you feel like you have a good idea of that?

Well, yes, of course, because I'm a very competitive dad. I've always been very competitive. I started competing very early age. I've been competing almost 30 years of my life in different sports, so of course I cannot just hold back my competitive Mentality. So when my son is out there and my son is seven right now and he's, he's in a in a swimming festival, and mom says it's just a festival, it doesn't care if he wins or not, he just has to be there. And I said to him and he's, I Talked to him before and I said you have to win. And he said like, yeah, I will give my best nose and you have to win. And he said like, and the mom says like, don't push him too much. And I said, no, I know you can win, but you have to believe in yourself. You have to believe in that you are half the capacity of being faster than the rest. And of course he was swimming and he was looking to me and then he finished first and then he holds his arms and I said, like you, I know that you, you were. I knew every time that you were able to do this, but of course I don't want to pressure him too much, so from time to time it's okay, but not every single day. And when we are out there. We were cycling yesterday and he said like today's goal is to To make the longest in distance in cycling, so far and he said like, oh so how many miles do we have to write? and I said, so many miles we have to write and he said, okay, how many miles left? So we need some goals, and these goals and objectives Motivates the kids. So I told him, if we break this mile record, you will, you deserve and the big ice cream. And he said like he was always looking for this big ice cream. So on the end, it's just my mentality, I think it's it's okay to push them up as far as they have fun. If they don't have fun anymore, that then yeah, turn it off.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It's it seems like you really recognize that that swim meet was a moment where you could really drive, that it wasn't just like hey, it's a swim practice, like let's be first at swim practice, but you really saw that as a good opportunity and it seems like that's that you know. I agree because, like they're, you know, as, again, as a competitor, you know that there are valuable Experiences and skills to be gained from one self belief and self confidence, even if he didn't win that race. The. The practice of Belief and confidence and knowing that you've put in the work and that you you've done everything you need to do to deserve to Be first, is such a valuable experience. But to you show up so much differently in that competitive experience that, again, if you, if you win, if you just barely lose, if you Totally don't, don't even metal, like all of that is so valuable but the fact that you put your all into it to try to win is so important. So, yeah, I agree and I do love the idea that you started really driving these things in those moments. And it sounds like then he had the idea of, hey, how many miles do we need to go and you made sure that it was fun with the ice cream instead of so yeah, I think that that's a really good one. I've tried to do something similar with With skiing. My son started ski lessons this year, and so he only gets hot cocoa and and as many marshmallows as he wants after ski days, and so right after the ski he's got his big gray. He's like hot cocoa and we're like yes exactly like you had fun, you tried, you tried your best, you did great, and now we're gonna go celebrate with some hot cocoa stuff.

Absolutely, absolutely agree with that, yeah that's awesome.

Now, when you think about like these, these next phases of of your kids getting older, you know, I think that you know especially seven you know you start to kind of get into these really pivotal moments of Growing into becoming a man, learning responsibility, more self-reliance, like what kind of things do you want to make sure? What opportunities I should say do you want to make sure you give your son much like, kind of like what you had to Try to really help him grow and develop as as a growing into manhood but also growing as an athlete, like if you thought about these kind of like rites of passages that you maybe want your son to to experience.

Well, this is a deep question because but definitely, definitely your Multitasks. I always was worried Showing my kid just my athlete life, because I thought probably he wants to miss school and just run, is that, or just climb, is that, and and don't pay attention in school, because he said I'm son of Carl Legler, so probably I will become an athlete and this is my life, and this is exactly not the value that I wanted to show him. I wanted to show him discipline. I wanted to show him that I have to wake up three hours earlier than everyone else Just to make sure that I can train and then go to the office and show him that also the office life and our Agency that we are working for is our, our normal life, and to become an athlete means this. You have to have two lives in the same time. Why? Because you show them both values, that you have to study, that you have to go for university, that you have to train hard and and there is a lot of discipline behind and you are eating also very different food, or you take care of yourself, of your body and everything. And I think the most important thing is that with seven, he understands that I'm a professional athlete. That means that that today you have to train yes, son, I have to train. And dad, what time are you going to the office? Yes, son, I have to go to the office. I have to respond some emails, I have some meetings and on the end of the day, he finally, with seven, understood that I'm not just playing around on my free time or on their free time to do something that I'm Just pretending. For me it's, it's a real life to train every day and then to compete and to be very good in shape. And of course, there are chapters where you have to show him also on the same time that Even if you do it every day, you still have fun and you love what to do. So you are very privileged to do that. So this is the answer when he's asking why you are climbing the mountain for the fifth or the sixth or the seventh time in the Last month, because it's it's my job and I'm still love to be out there. So I think the balance of a normal office life with an athlete life is a big, it's a big challenge. Sometimes you are tired, you don't want to go to the office, you would love to take nap because you kids didn't sleep well, but you still have to perform. So it's always this balance that I've been, yeah, juggling in the last few years, especially with sufficient recovery, because sometimes you really struggle with bad nights. I have a two year old daughter and and of course she gives me, of course, sometimes really Terrifying nights. So sometimes you wake up at four and you wish to sleep ten more hours.

Yes, I love that and I love what you hit on is like the exposure For them to the whole process, not just seeing dad go compete or not seeing just the successes, but also like how, how it all, how it all comes together, how your business life comes together, bringing them to the office. I'm seeing the training, seeing the diet, seeing the sacrifices, seeing the time management you know, waking up at 3 am To go do the workouts. I mean, I can still think about my own dad and I knew he did the same things he would, except for he would get up that early to go get his work in so that then he could come to like my wrestling practice and all those things and those are ingrained on my brain. So I know that those are so important, probably for your son as well, and I think that, yeah, that process of seeing you work through it again Not just the good but but the bad, like what can you think of any any times where your son was witnessed to when things didn't go well, when maybe you failed or things were worse, were a struggle?

Yes, yes, for sure. I think this is a Very important. We can. We can fail as Dad, as adults. We can fail many times and sometimes, of course, you prepared four or five, six months for a certain project and then you had bad weather, or you were not able to start, or the money from the sponsors that we were saving is gone and they, they decide to do something else with the money in you, as an athlete, prepared for so many months, and you cannot go. But I think the most, well, I think that in a particular, in a particular Moment where I can think right now, which was probably the worst moment we ever had as a family, was that we got robbed here in Ecuador, and about a year ago, exactly on those on this festivities, on early Christmas time, and when we got robbed we were tight, we were three hours raped there in a house and we had guns on our heads and when, when the thieves were gone, I remember I was crying. I was, I was hugging my family and I was crying and my sons said Dad, are they gone? And they said, yeah, they are gone, they are not here anymore. And then you are thinking as a dad. I would like to cry. I would like to just, I'm a human. This is a moment that you don't know how to react Nobody trains you how to react and, and inside I had this feeling of care. You have to give them security. You are that. You have to give them that. This, this, the most important thing right now is to give them peace and that they are safe and they are the other, that the bad people are gone and you. You are not the kid right now. So give them a Big hug. And I remember those moments that I was. I was holding my son and and and giving him wise words, and as soon as he was with mom, I was crying like a baby, in, in, in, in. In the bathroom and, and she was doing the same. We she was taking a shower and crying, and we were trying to kind of use this wall between the bathroom and and and our kids room to understand that we cannot bring our feelings to them because they will Feel even worse. That are feeling and, and just to separate both. So I think this in real life, also in projects, in processes, in as an athlete, when you get injured or when things are not Working smooth I think this is very important sometimes to to know what we are saying, and and and. How can we teach them to understand that we are humans too, that we can do mistakes, and that the lives is life is not over, that these are gonna teach us to be better humans, definitely?

and Carl, I really appreciate you sharing that with us. I I can't even imagine what that experience must have been like, and you know, that's exactly where my mind went when, when you said it was the idea that, you know, as dads, we especially, I think, feel that pressure to be the protectors, to keep our family and our kids safe and to give them that reassurance that everything's gonna be okay even when things are really bad. And so you know, I think that that you know it's as difficult as a situation as that must be, you know, and them getting to witness how you respond and how your wife responds, yeah, that must have been a really powerful moment for them, and you know it's. It's never that we would wish these negative experiences, these hard experiences like that, in our lives, but you know we we definitely have to expect them right, bad things are gonna happen, really awful things are gonna go on, especially if we live a long life. You know Friends are gonna pass, family members are gonna have tragedies, and I think that you know, one thing I always think of, and one of the reasons I want to make sure I continue pursuing Athletic endeavors, is because I believe in that. You know I'm gonna totally misquote it, but it's that idea that when times are good you have to stay sharp, you have to do the hard things when the times are good so that when the hard times come, you are strong and prepared. How much of your life Do you feel like has been influenced the the ability to show up strong in those difficult moments? How much of that do you feel like has been influenced by the hard things that you have done as an athlete?

Well, I think chapters in life, as you mentioned before, makes you the person you are and this I think nobody has. The the perfect, smooth life forever. Nothing is it's just as we say in Spanish, a white line forever. Sometimes we we have to struggle, and some people struggle more than the others, and I think something that defines a professional athlete is the mentality, is the attitude. So Everyone can train hard, everyone can perform, but this little extra that you need to push your, your body and you and your soul and your mind harder than the others is sometimes what you, what you lived before, or chapters if you had before that you just want to, I don't know just erase them or Make them stronger. I lost my mom when I was 16 years old and I had to grow up From one day to the other to be very immature with 16, to become an adult with 16, to have three jobs to pay the school and this. I think is one of the the best chapters in my life. Of course, losing my mom was nothing, nothing beautiful in life, but I take the positive things of it and definitely make me a very responsible and a very athletic person, because I was. I needed to release all this pain and I found in sports exactly that I was running as far as I could so I could forget all that there, that this thoughts, and come back home and be released. This was kind of my drug and this is how I probably had this endurance inside me. So I always try to teach my kids About this that you never know what can happen, that you they have to be definitely prepared for life. If I have a very dangerous profession, I'm running up the mountains, so definitely this is not a Run around the park. I can fall into a crevasse, I can be hit by an avalanche anytime or I can die without the two sickness anytime. So they are prepared that of course I try to be as safe as possible. As a dad, I want to be as responsible as possible. I trade hard, I train even harder than when I perform and, of course, you. My goal and my objective and my, my summit is to come back home and and hug my people. If, if I do another world record or not, it's, it's absolutely just a bonus. The most important thing is to take the right decisions and and, of course, when you had this situation when you were a child or a teenager, you try to Teach your son or your daughter that they have to learn to cook, they have to learn to be independent with money, to know languages, to travel, to be an adult or especially, a very grown-up mentality for this world, and this is something that I try to teach them, and Also my wife. She knows that all these records are dangerous but on the same time, she knows what I'm doing and we both know that this is gonna be over in one point of our lives because I'm getting older, and she does not want me to Not understand that line. That means that sometimes you're getting older and you are passing 50s or 55 and you are not in shape as a 20 year old, and you have to. You have to definitely accept that your body is getting older and definitely this is an agreement between both how many projects are coming and when it's over, and then Changing a little bit the mentality and risk less.

I think you really hit on it, this, the seasons of life, and really making sure that we're making the most of those. That intentional, that intentionality of how we approach the seasons of life. And and you know, obviously you know, like you said, we certainly don't hope for these tragedies to instill, Give us the opportunities to instill these lessons and these skills and these experiences with our kids. So I love that you're finding ways to introduce those things just in normal day-to-day life as these seasons approach themselves. And it's funny because I was actually just having that conversation with my own wife yesterday around you know this idea of like when do I think that, like my peak opportunity for physical pursuits is done and, within that window, what are the goals that you want to try to hit on? You know, what are the things we want to try to accomplish there? And wives are always great at keeping us in check a bit around our careers, our pursuits, all these things. But you know, I definitely agree that you know the idea that the themes that I keep really hearing from you are one around this idea of intentionality, and I think that really comes from what you talk about as well, which is around goals, and that's also how you're thinking about managing risk and it's all very deliberate. When you think about risk, you know obviously anytime we're in the mountains we're in unstable terrain you mentioned at altitude, especially in a place like Ecuador. You know where there's a lot of risk to be managed and people often might, from the outside, look at the pursuits in the mountains as wild, unnecessarily risky. But you know we folks that are mountain athletes understand it where it's really about managing risk and there's a lot of ways to do that. But one thing I'm really curious about for you is how you think about risk and how that may have changed before you or a dad, and now that you are a dad, Like has risk? Did that shift for you in becoming a dad, where you started to think about risk differently?

This is a great question. I think this is a question that many of my relatives have asked me when my wife was pregnant Are you going to stop? Are you going to be looking for another job, or you still want to be guiding out there? Is it not too risky? We live in a very conservative society and definitely especially being a woman. I remember my mother-in-law said to my wife that she should definitely stop hiking with me in the mountains. It's way too risky to be a mom, and especially if she's going with me and something happens to both of us and that would be absolutely forgivable and everything. And, of course, I've talked to my kids and I always say that I'm not going to stop because of you guys, because definitely I don't want you to feel like that was stopping because you were born. It's completely the opposite. I want to show them why I'm the person I am and, of course, being definitely, definitely aware that there is a risk and a train for that risk. As you all already mentioned, we want to be, of course, we want to manage the risk and, of course, being a mountain guide means attending courses, doing avalanche and risk courses, doing definitely research and a lot of things. Try to get out of this comfort zone, even if you have climbed the mountains so many times that you don't forget to look for the, for the forecast, to look for the snow conditions to look like how is your client, what is the resume of your client and everything. And when I'm performing out there and doing really dangerous things. I remember once I was climbing the south wall of Aconcagua and we were late, later than we thought we run into really cold temperatures, about 40 degrees Celsius below zero. It was really cold and my friend, who is my rope partner on this expedition, he started to struggle and he said Carl, cut the rope, I cannot walk anymore. And we were climbing and I was. I was watching the road on the way up and on the way down it was like, yeah, just dark. It was so steep and and definitely was the very first time I was worried that we are not going to make it. And I was watching him and trying to to convince him not to give up. And then he said, yeah, but if we still will climb this this slow, we will definitely freeze, and especially with these temperatures. So I was asking myself for the very first time in my life why I'm doing this, why I'm here and I'm a dad. I want to, I want to go home. So I'm not having fun right now and my friend is my best friend is dying. So what should I do if, if I just cut the rope and climb this mountain alone? Definitely this, this will definitely be the the worst thing I want to do, just to raise your hands and knowing that you lost probably your best friend. So I was going through a lot of things in my mind on those moments and I was pulling the rope as fast as as strong as I could and he was not moving at all and I was climbing back to him and I remember I talked to him and I said, like the destiny is not to climb this mountain, it's just to get back home. So forget about the time, forget about how fast we're moving. Yeah, just move. This is the only thing we have to is to keep warm our bodies and keep moving. So every time I'm going to count until three I I really want you to pretend you are moving so I can pull you a bit. And he said like, ok, and this is how we went out there. And every time I said, ok, one, two and three, try to move. And he was trying to move and he was moving, and so it took us three times more than we expected, but on the end we made it out. And the war record was was not the time we wanted to do, it was a still one, but it was not the time we wanted. But it was the very first time I was hearing my son in a kind of a voice telling me like that, I need you. And I was seeing him, like in chapters in life when he was a grown up man, looking back. And that wasn't there sitting in the chair and I remember my wife looking at this empty chair and my son looking to this empty chair and I said no, no, I have to be in this chair, I have to be there. I cannot give up right now. So definitely I think my kids gave me strength, my kids gave me a reason to live and definitely I'm aware that those walls I won't be climbing anymore on. In particular, on this speed mode, I decided to to do speed climbing project, but everything in a normal road where I can sit down or I can turn around and there is not just game over if I'm hanging in the wall. So I think my kids make me think differently, absolutely especially my wife, because what she went through that night is something that when we were talking, when I came back home, she said like I really thought you were gone for because I didn't hear from you for more than 10 hours. So of course, the ones waiting for us at home, they have really a bad time when we are out there. So I don't want my kids to be in a teenager age waiting until that sense a WhatsApp or whatever from the month and that he's still alive. So I want to quit doing very dangerous things before they reach there, that they're certain kind of a teenager age and then then it's over. Definitely there will be climbing all my life. I hope so, but I think, yeah, I try to manage risk as far as I can.

That is such a powerful moment and that visual of the empty chair and the strength that that helped you muster, I mean that's incredible and I think that it's such an interesting shift internally where one you know I love that. What you said, that there's. This other aspect of balance when we have these ambitions, is that we need to, we need to model ambition, but we've got to adjust our goals a bit so that it's not taking what we may deem now as something unnecessary risk or something it's a little bit too risky for our other priorities now. But I do love that it wasn't just a matter of well, now I don't do these things but the fact that it also probably made you a better climber in that moment, because it gave you that intrinsic strength of like, no, like I cannot give up right now, like we will not stop here, we will keep going and I think you know, as parents, we always think about that strength, that that comes to us when our children need us most of like you know we're in a carcass or they're in danger and we just have that infinite strength that appears in us and it really seems like they were. They were there with you to help you get down the mountain and you know it seems I love this theme that you've been repeating as well. You know, I think Ed Vissers really says it best of getting to the top is optional, getting down is mandatory, and especially when it comes to being a dad, being a husband, having the family, keeping that as the priority, it's like that really is the, the anchor of like this will be a successful climb if my feet are back in the door at the end of the day. I was just on Denali and that was that. That was the mantra is getting to the top is optional, getting down is mandatory. This will be a successful expedition if dad comes home with 10 fingers and 10 toes and so. But I love this idea too that you're still going after big goals. I think that's so important and I think that that modeling of ambition, that why this purpose of this bigger purpose of our lives, is so important for our kids to to witness as well. So I really appreciate you. You share in that story with us. You know how do you think about goals. Now you know you, you have really taken over are really, you know, preeminent spot in terms of speed, mountaineering you mentioned you're going for speed of sense on. You know standard routes, ones that that really allow you to manage risk. You know when you think about creating goals or sharing goals, or even like help. You know bringing your kids into that process, like what is your process for creating goals and then executing upon them.

Well, I think the right answer is to choose the right project and not kind of over saturate your year with objectives and with competitions and with everything, because the balance with the family especially if you have kids there, they need your attention. When you have a five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 year old boy who wants every weekend to do something with that and that is never around in weekends because he's competing, I don't want to lose that. So definitely I figure out that doing less is much more balanced in my life, that I can really prepare for those projects to do three, four in a year and really do my very best and be in very good shape and do something really difficult for me as an athlete. But the rest of the time, being a responsible dad and spending time with my kids, the time goes so fast and they are in one second they are grown and they don't want dad and mom anymore. They just want to go out with their friends. So I just want to be there and remember those beautiful years growing up with them and cycling with them and swimming with them and climbing with them. So I think this is this is important. But many people say, car, you should quit and focus on your family. No, because I think I'm in my best shape right now and I know this is going to be over in a few years, but right now I'm very focused and I want my kids to understand that dad has been working almost all his life for this objective, for his projects. And yeah, I definitely think that something that changed in my life is to do less. Still do it very good, but try to understand. We always say in Spanish you know which wars you have to win. So for me to go to this project is a very balanced decision with life.

Yeah, yeah, and it sounds like you're really getting. It's not like you're lacking fulfillment, right. You're getting fulfillment in other ways and some in a lot of ways, probably more profound ways with the family and bringing them along on some of these objectives when you're in your training. You know, one thing I've noticed is that, you know, becoming a dad and wanting to be a good dad and be a good husband, but also do these things outside of the home has made me much more efficient and it has highlighted a lot of inefficiencies and areas where I can be better. Like, how do you think that that's changed for you? Like, do you feel like you've become more efficient because you've got to get to the swim meet and get your training in and do these other things?

I think yes, especially when we are talking about training. Sometimes I start my training session just running fast and I remember when I was not a dad, I was warming up and taking time to have breakfast and enjoying this relaxing post time after breakfast, waiting something and all has was kind of a mantra. And right now you're just washing up your face and then OK, I got. I got a train because my son has to go to school and I don't have time for a second cup of coffee. I have to run. And as soon as you start your performance, it's like boom, directly, go fast as hell. And then of course you are, you are after 10 minutes, you are struggling and I should have warmed up. Of course I should have done that, but on the end it's just this efficiently time that you have. You don't have other time of the day to just perform. So I think sometimes it's funny, but we humans, we, we adapt, we adapt. Probably we we've seen it especially in the pandemic, how we adapted to this virtual world and and everything changed since the pandemic. But humans have always been adapting to to their new chapters in life, situations, cultures, religions, everything. So I think it's just something that you have to deal with. There is no warm up time anymore.

It doesn't have to train Our yeah, yeah, oh, man, especially as we get older, I really feel those days when I didn't warm up or I didn't stretch afterwards, or I didn't foam roll at night, and so, yeah, it's like creatively finding other ways to get that in. And, man, that second cup of coffee is something I dearly miss as well. So, yeah, that's, that's great, you know. I just think, again, it comes back to the idea of you just get. You're getting fulfillment in different ways, you're finding opportunities to really strike that balance. But I think balance is something that's like I don't I certainly don't know if I've ever really achieved balance. I think it's something that's just a constant pursuit, much like what we're doing in the mountains. It's a constant pursuit Like there will always be objectives that, when our career is done, we would have loved to have gotten to, but we just know that there's just no way to to get them all. Like, where do you feel like you either can or want to improve still when it comes to balance?

Well, this is a great question, ben, because especially on this time of the year, a lot of friends come around and they say, like we are in town, we should meet and you have family, you have to train, you have to work and you don't have so much time when, when you become a parent and then being a parent and an athlete and being in the office, you have to sacrifice a lot. And I always tell them my wife sometimes it's better to take your time and write a letter than instead of being all afternoon with someone out there and drinking beers. Sometimes it's just because I don't have the time anymore and I will be so stressed if I'm all afternoon out there talking, knowing that I have so many things to do. So I think this is also balance. Sometimes you need you need also to see your friends. You have also to have your social life. You don't just you can be in a. You can't be in a cave forever. So I think it's it's very important to deal with and sometimes say, ok, this day in particular I won't be training, and this day I want to see my friends. I will try to meet three, four or five in the same day and do schedules or whatever, and I'm missing hiking with my wife. So why shouldn't we take children to my parents in law and just go out there and it's everything is? I think that the key word here is organization. It's the only thing that you have to do is just to, to know what is important for you. Of course working is important, otherwise you won't have the money for anything. But working is not all and training is not all neither. Sometimes training last makes you stronger because your mind is stressed and your body is not recovering properly, but you think you have to train more because the other guy is training more. So sometimes you need to, to, to, to realize what is very important in your life. And I remember I had once a psychologist and he said like in life, you have to do everything like a circle If you're doing just training and just family. It is is not looking like a perfect circle. So family and having free time and going to the cinema with the kids and everything is the perfect ball that we want to have to be stable in life. Of course you want to train more. Of course you want to see more your friends, of course you want to go to holidays and everything. So I think that balance is something that we will be dealing our entire life. But the only thing which is something that you cannot go backwards if you are not doing something particular, you're missing. For example, if you you don't have contact with your friends ever again, of course, after 10 years, you realize that and they are gone, definitely they are gone. They're going to say that he's not caring about us. So it's important to have this balance to your wife too. Sometimes, when you have small children, your wife is a ghost because you are going home and the children are jumping around and the one is crying, the other one is hungry, the other one wants to go to bed, the other one needs the bath, and then you are stressed because you have to send some emails and some you have to train and on the end, your, your yes, your partnership is is in danger because you are not having this beautiful time where you were used to before having kids. So this is also important from time to time, to say, ok, we haven't had a date in a long time, we should go out there and do something. So I think this is this is something that I would say. This is the biggest challenge of being a dad is to kind of put everything under the same roof.

I love that mental model of the circle, of when I've stretched one part of it I've got to compensate by bringing the rest of that into balance and trying to maintain Of course trying is the key word to maintain more of that circle. And you know, it sounds like you really have a clear idea of what matters to you, like what your priorities are, so that it does make it a little easier to say, hey, I can't, I can't grab beers. But I love the idea of the writing the letter, sitting down, being like I want intentional time with you. What are other ways that I might be able to get that? I struggle with the social part too. Again, I live in a town where there's like more breweries than people sometimes it feels like, and so it's hard not to just like everybody. You know the thing is like go grab a beer. Hey, we got off the mountain, let's go grab a beer. And it's like I don't want to always do that, but I want to maintain this friendship. How do I, how do I balance the social aspect? Or friends come into town and you're like that really today's supposed to be my long training day Like maybe we could rope up and I can bring you on the mountain. But you know, I think that you know you hit on it too, with it's like it's priorities right, being very clear about what's what matters most. So I love that you hit on organization. We try to organize ourselves as much as we can, but then there's the variable of like, how do we navigate the unknown, the ambiguity, the stuff that just pops up in our life? The kids are sick, the friends in town, the relatives stopping by? Do you feel like you have a good way of keeping your priorities top of mind or staying organized so that, so that you're more prepared for those unknown variables?

Well, I think a big part of it is my wife, so she knows exactly that as a professional athlete, I need my time to train, and she absolutely respects that. And the only thing that she asks me for is, of course, don't do it on the main energy time of your kids. That means probably from eight o'clock until 12 o'clock in the morning where they are absolutely in shape and they are doing an earthquake inside the house. So definitely they need a very energetic old dad and take them out to bike or to do something. So I try to train, but early in the night, when they are sleeping and when I'm having breakfast, I wake them up and we have this energy time together. Probably I'm wasted but, they are still very energetic and this is kind of the balance. So on the afternoon we try to do everything together with with, with mom, and she trains also, and she trains every day too, but of course she has to work in the office, like me too. So this is the balance. That, ok, tuesday you're you probably going to focus more on emails and I will be more with the kids. On Tuesday and Thursday we're going to switch the role and I will be doing the office and she's with the kids. So on the end, everything is is involved with organization Absolutely. And the beautiful thing is that we get older and we always try to do things better and we are not smarter, but we are more experienced. So sometimes, when, when you are getting older, you look back and say we should have done it many years ago already this way. But life teaches you not knowing that from right on the first moment, because it's it. This is the key to be a dad. That that's a whole new life where you're studying and you just try to understand. And, of course, this little chapter that the kids are growing gives you every time a little bit more breath, gives you a little bit more space, and this. More space means that your kid is more independent and his reading or his the entire afternoon with his friends and you feel this freedom for a few minutes or hours and then you start to have this relationship again. That means like, ok, kids are not around, let's go for a walk. Wow, I've done this in many, many years, so this is the beautiful thing of growing your own kids. Of course, if you have them all day with the nanny, you probably are not going to feel this so intense, as if you have them at home and you have to organize schedules and everything.

Yeah, I feel that. I mean I think that you hit on a few really good points. I mean one yeah, my wife is the master of keeping the family organized and making sure that we get back to that circle of balance, and you know it's hard to it's hard that that breath of space is a little sad in ways, right when it's like it's nice because it's like great, I do have more time to get back to some of these things. But you know, I feel really conflicted about it too, because I'm like, oh man, they, they don't need me as much, like pretty soon they're going to be with their friends and then they're going to be like too cool for dad. And the next thing I know they're driving and they're graduating and then they maybe go to college somewhere else. And so, yeah, I go down these rabbit holes where I feel really conflicted and I don't know if that ever goes away, if there's ever a good answer for that. But it certainly helps me to try to remember, to be present, to take those walks, to get that extra time, especially when dad is feeling tired and not feeling like I want to sit and play Legos or play Train. So, yeah, I love that. Well, I know that you mentioned the business of yours and that's a really important part of it and, like one, before we dive into that, I just really just want to applaud you for all that you're getting into Again. I think this is why I love exploring this topic, because on the surface, people just see the athlete and the things that they're accomplishing and I love how much of just your life as a human, as a dad, as a husband, as a friend, you really revealed for us today, and I have certainly taken away a lot of really valuable insights here. But I know the business is a really important part of yours. So, koum Raitoures in Ecuador. I would love if you could tell us a little bit more about that business and how people can get involved with it.

Well, thank you for mentioning it, ben. Well, this is a family business. My wife and me we're just two and we run a tour operator here in Ecuador and we actually sell tours all over the world and normally I'm the head guide, I'm guiding all the seven summits, I'm organizing expeditions, I have some meetings with my clients, I teach them how to train, how to prepare, how to be in shape and everything, and on the same time, we have almost 40 guides working for us here in Ecuador running tours, hiking, trekking all over the mountains and also traditional touring. If someone doesn't want to go to the summits and do something easier, well, we are based here in Ecuador, but we are worldwide. It means we are selling tours Kilimanjaro, himalayas, the Andes and the Alps and everywhere. So it's beautiful because I'm doing what I love, since I was probably 15 years old and I'm still doing the same, which is showing why I love mountains to other people and being part of their dreams and guiding them to the top of their dreams. Sometimes it's like should I make it? I'm capable of doing it. Yes, you can do that, but step by step, doing things right and getting prepared, and so on. This is the reason why I've never stopped guiding, even being a professional guide, an athlete. People always ask me why are you still guiding, carl? This is definitely another training. That means you are tired all the time. You are not in shape to train hard, but for me it fills my soul to take other people to the summit. I put my feet to the earth when I see how much they fought to reach the summit and when they are there they are crying. You are part of it and you're where the guy is, motivating him and feeding him and giving him security to achieve his dream. I definitely come back home tired but happy.

Man, I love that and that's amazing. The international options, the personalized coaching, all that sounds like such a great experience. I mentioned before in our first call that I had mentioned to a friend that's a guide that I was like what love to get to Ecuador? He said when you do, you've got to hit up this guy, carl. He runs this amazing company down there. I'll make sure to link all that in the show notes so folks can check it out. I'm a firm believer that and I'm sure you are everyone at some point should try to climb a mountain. It's a religious experience like no other. I love that. This is a big piece of fulfillment. I've certainly felt that as the person being guided with the guides, that they were such an important special part of that you mentioned to have the opportunity to help fulfill someone's dreams in this very unique way, where it's a struggle, that is the ultimate dream realization. I really love hearing about the business and love that it's a family business as well. I know we're just about a time and I just have two more questions for you. The first thing I'm curious about and we've hit on a lot of wonderful wisdom that you've shared One I'd be curious if you have anything, any parting ideas that you want to make sure we hit on to leave the listeners with. I would love to hear that first, and then would love to know what's coming up next for you. We're going to be this episode. If you're listening to it, it's the new year, carl. I'm curious what's coming up this year for you personally, professionally? What's coming up for your family Any parting wisdom you want to make sure we get to and then just excited to hear what's coming up for you this next year.

Well, thank you for both questions. First, I'm going to answer the second one. The big goal right now is to do a new world record on speeding up and down Everest. This is going to happen on spring 2025, so I still have 15 months to train like hell. Definitely, I will be focusing all my year and attention on my best shape ever Sleeping high, training high, trying to be, as far as I can, the epoxy machine, sleeping in altitude tents and being fast and training my athletic version. But I think the biggest goal in 2024 is we will be moving to Switzerland, the new chapter in our lives, definitely a huge adventure coming for us. We have lived and grown up in Ecuador, but right now it's time to change the ambience. For sponsoring reasons, we are going to Switzerland, so we can't wait to be there and my kids are very happy. My wife is learning fluently German, so she's happy For me. German is my father's language, so I grew up with languages and I'm happy to speak them. So 2024 and 2025 probably will be the strongest years in my life, mentally and physically. I can't wait to do all these projects. I think, answering your first question, what advice could I give everyone out there? And, being a dad. I think the most important thing is just don't forget what you really love in life. So sometimes we are focusing just our attention on work, or we are just focusing our attention on kids and we are just focusing our attention on earning money. And the most important thing is just think what are your goals? Have you been working for those goals since you were a teenager? What is in your bucket list? What would you like to do? So everything as an order in life to do. Of course, growing with small kids needs more attention than when they are growing up. You have more time for yourself, but don't forget to live your life. On the end, we are dads, but our life keeps going. So this is the advice that I give it to all the audience.

Amazing. I think that sums it up perfectly. I love that. And, gosh, I love Switzerland. It's one of my favorite places I've ever gone to the land of cheese and chocolate and accessible mountains. It really doesn't get any better than that. So I'm thrilled for you and the family. And last thing, I'm just curious, so folks have the context what is the speed record on Everest?

The speed record on Everest is advanced base camp, summit. Advanced base camp, up and down without artificial oxygen in 22 hours and the goal is to do it from base camp. That means to up and down 50 more miles to run and to become the first humans to do base camp, summit base camp, without support and without artificial oxygen.

Wow, that's incredible. So is this north side, then, or south side?

North side. Yes, you just figured out, absolutely.

Awesome, my gosh. I hope people realize how incredible that is, considering that my think most folks are on the mountain for months trying to acclimatize and do such a feat. So amazing. Carl, I'm thrilled to get to follow along with your journey in Switzerland and with 2025 Everest speed records and, most importantly, as life as dad. I have so much gratitude for you taking the time today and I really appreciate you imparting some wisdom in this conversation for us.

No, it has been a pleasure, brian. Thank you so much and sorry for my English. I gave my very best today. I will keep learning and, yeah, thank you very much for your time. It has been a pleasure talking to you.

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