#7: Matthias Giraud "Superfrenchie" (Professional Ski-BASE Jumper) - Living an intentional life exploring passion, purpose, and pragmatism

[Super Frenchie]: 0:00

Yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 0:00

can just talk about next step. So

[Super Frenchie]: 0:02

No worries, sounds good.

[Ben Gibson]: 0:03

cool. Awesome, brother. Sweet. Well, I, uh, I have been very excited for this conversation for a really long time.

[Super Frenchie]: 0:09

I'm going to go ahead and close the door.

[Ben Gibson]: 0:10

And, uh, so Mattias, thank you so much for, uh, for jumping on to have a conversation today.

[Super Frenchie]: 0:14

Thanks for having me, all good.

[Ben Gibson]: 0:16

Yeah, awesome. So I think that the, you know, the thing that I'm always interested to start off with is that there's this really funny contrast between how athletes are perceived in the public eye and how athletes are perceived at home, you know, they could be, you know, very prestigious and really well known at a high level outside, but at home, they're just dad. And so I'm curious, like for you, like, what's the dynamic at home with Mattias as dad?

[Super Frenchie]: 0:46

I'm very close to my son. We have a really tight bond and relationship. I think I'm very fortunate that he... It's funny because I have friends that are rock stars, I have kids and stuff like that, and at home it's just like whatever. Dad is like, you know, it's almost like he's just a dad, you know, even though the guy will play in front of like 20,000 people and get them all fired up, you know. But so there's not necessarily that notion of prestige. But my son is really into action sports, so he really respects and values what I do, because I think he sees the everyday to day dedication to it. And so at home, it's almost the, we are very close. It's almost more of a mentorship relationship than just classical fatherhood. And my son always says that we're almost like, he's almost like my little brother. And... So there's respect, like he knows not to mess with me because I'm actually a really strict dad, but at the same time I'm extremely loving and I always take the time to explain, break down ideas, concepts, we talk a lot. And so that's the relationship we have. But at the same time, yeah, it's really funny because when you're a professional athlete, you don't have professional life separated from your private life, it's all blended in. So he'd be eating his little snack and I'm just. in the living room packing my parachute and it's just for him it's completely normal you know he's like what are you gonna jump jump off next and he's gonna be like oh i'm gonna go do this all right all right cool or be like yeah did your friend die i was like yeah yeah he died what did you do how he did this and this is like oh okay yeah he messed up huh i was like yeah exactly so it's very pragmatic and just

[Ben Gibson]: 2:28

Yeah,

[Super Frenchie]: 2:28

kind of normal you know so

[Ben Gibson]: 2:30

that's why

[Super Frenchie]: 2:30

but

[Ben Gibson]: 2:30

I

[Super Frenchie]: 2:30

uh

[Ben Gibson]: 2:30

love.

[Super Frenchie]: 2:31

yeah there are times when it's tense when you're getting ready to go do a nerdy projects and i don't lie to my son ever i always explain it in words that he can't understand as a child but So we have this very honest and open connection as a father and son. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 2:48

That's awesome. I love that

[Super Frenchie]: 2:49

Yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 2:49

imagery of like the, you know, other dads like stuffing their briefcase with stuff to go to work and you're just over there stuffing your parachute to go to work. That's so cool.

[Super Frenchie]: 2:58

Yeah,

[Ben Gibson]: 2:58

Is that how you?

[Super Frenchie]: 2:59

go

[Ben Gibson]: 2:59

Oh,

[Super Frenchie]: 2:59

for

[Ben Gibson]: 3:00

sorry, go ahead.

[Super Frenchie]: 3:01

it,

[Ben Gibson]: 3:01

I

[Super Frenchie]: 3:01

sorry.

[Ben Gibson]: 3:01

was

[Super Frenchie]: 3:01

I

[Ben Gibson]: 3:01

gonna

[Super Frenchie]: 3:01

said

[Ben Gibson]: 3:01

say

[Super Frenchie]: 3:01

sometimes I bring him to the drop zone with me and he's just chilling and skateboarding when I'm just loading up the plane and flying my wingsuit and landing. I'm like, all right, I'm going to do a couple of jumps and I'll take you to the skate park. I'm like, okay, that's cool. It's totally normal. Yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 3:13

Yeah, that's cool. Is that how you thought you would show up as a dad? Like I know we no one can predict like this is the dad I'm going to be but I don't I feel like men especially feel like we we kind of come into being a father as like, you know, these are the things I think I'm going to do well at this is kind of how I want to show up. Did you think you were going to be the strict dad or show up as the way you do? Or was it totally different when once you became a dad?

[Super Frenchie]: 3:38

I think there's a cultural element too. I didn't know I was going to be a dad in America, you know, which is a country that doesn't really have social codes and norms and social rigidity in many ways. It does in others, right? But France has the weight of tradition which has expected behaviors that come with that. Therefore, we're a lot more old school for many things, right? So for me, I never reflected that that was strict. It just was, you know. I always thought, or you know, if you asked me when I was a teenager or in my early 20s, I would have been like, yeah, I wanna be the cool dad. That's always gonna do cool stuff with his son. And I am what I, I mean, it sounds maybe arrogant to say I'm a cool dad, but I think I do a lot of cool stuff with my son. Cause I know he says all the time, it's like, I'm so lucky to be able to do that with my dad. It's like, well, many ways, yeah, I get it. Cause I wasn't able to do that with my dad, you know. So I had to build myself and now I can pass that on to my kid. But I never reflected on my parenting style. I always thought I was going to be a dad. For me, it's like, yeah, I'll be a dad someday. Obviously, it comes with some realization once you are a dad.

[Ben Gibson]: 4:52

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 4:53

And then that's when you fine tune your technique or how you do it. But I think my goal is always to be a dad. to be was always clear as a dad because I remember how I was as a child.

[Ben Gibson]: 5:05

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 5:05

And I think a lot of parents forget how they were as a child or what was difficult for them or irritated them or what they wanted. I remember I couldn't stand arbitrary decisions. So I'm always trying to be fair, which is hard because I'm not a patient person. So I always have to counterbalance the two. And yeah, I always I can't remember what I was gonna say, but yeah, pretty much. Yeah arbitrary

[Ben Gibson]: 5:30

Oh good.

[Super Frenchie]: 5:31

behavior is something that

[Ben Gibson]: 5:32

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 5:32

I always wanted to to avoid and I always wanted to To really focus on yeah, that's what I was gonna say. No, so no arbitrary behavior That's the thing that I learned from my parents that I knew I was never never gonna apply to my kid I think there's a generational generational thing too So always taking the time to explain why why you

[Ben Gibson]: 5:50

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 5:51

say yes what you say no If

[Ben Gibson]: 5:52

Oh,

[Super Frenchie]: 5:52

it goes

[Ben Gibson]: 5:52

man.

[Super Frenchie]: 5:53

along with a lot of work when they're like three or four, but now, you know starting age we could travel to France together and I could fully trust him.

[Ben Gibson]: 6:00

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 6:00

Like, it's awesome. I see so

[Ben Gibson]: 6:02

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 6:02

many five-year-olds out there that are out of control. And I'm just like, your kid is just a Tasmanian devil. Like, I can't stand him or her. Like, but obviously that's a reflection of, are you taking the time to break things down? You know, so your son or daughter has that connectivity with the world and understands its surrounding.

[Ben Gibson]: 6:20

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 6:20

And so... So anyway, arbitrary behavior and then making him independent and autonomous as early as possible because I really valued my independence as a kid. I didn't really have a very nurturing mom. My dad was very loving but very absent. So I just had to learn to do things on my own. And I had awesome older sisters, but they were 12 and nine years older than me. So five years old, I would just walk from the house to the lift, put on my ski boots on my own and go to ski coaching by myself. You know, I walked like a mile to go to skiing by myself at five, you know, which back in the day felt like normal. But now that I'm looking at these days, these two days world, I'm like, well, kids don't have that self-reliance and independence. And yeah, sure. I got in trouble a little bit here and there, but cause you'd like to test your environment, but I think that was what I really valued was my independence and autonomy as a kid, but I couldn't stand arbitrary behavior. So these were the three things that I really insist on.

[Ben Gibson]: 7:14

Yeah, I love that explaining the whys of things. Uh, looking back at my own childhood, that was it for me where it felt like I wasn't included in a lot of the decisions or I wasn't, uh, I wanted to seat at the table, you know, I was like, dude, I'll go along with it, but just like, help me understand why

[Super Frenchie]: 7:29

and

[Ben Gibson]: 7:29

we are doing

[Super Frenchie]: 7:29

yeah

[Ben Gibson]: 7:30

what we're doing. Um,

[Super Frenchie]: 7:31

yeah

[Ben Gibson]: 7:32

because otherwise, yeah, the Tasmanian devil behavior makes total sense because these kids are just flying by the seat of their pants. No one has set expectations for them. They have no idea like what's coming. They don't have a seat at the table with that mutual respect. So they're not like a part of the equation. And so they're almost like at the airport, like another piece of luggage just being dragged through the airport to get onto the airplane. So

[Super Frenchie]: 7:52

Yeah, no,

[Ben Gibson]: 7:53

yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 7:53

it's true. Cern has always been a travel companion. We are doing things together. And you travel really early on. And even since then, my ex-wife now, so his mom and I separated. We got divorced. But the thing is, what I always say to him is, hey, listen, it's... I'm not imposing a schedule on you. Is this something you want to tweak? Do you want to change things a little bit? Like for example, switch off days. You know, we used to do it on Sunday. Now we switched it on Friday. So we preserve the weekend. So it's easier. And I asked him, I was like, would that be better for you? He's like, actually, yeah, I like that better. And so sticking him into accounts, it's like, listen, you're not just a pawn that we're just moving around. You're part of the equation. You have your say in things, but we also have the authority as parents. So, but your voice is heard and you're... your intuition and desires are taken into account.

[Ben Gibson]: 8:46

Yeah. Yeah, that's huge. And it's that work upfront, right? And I think a lot of parents probably avoid it because it's, it's certainly a lot more work to do upfront to have to stop and explain things and have to wait for them to like physically get going with you, if you're going to give them the autonomy, but it certainly does, you know, pay off in the long run when you have an, a confident independent kid.

[Super Frenchie]: 9:06

100%. 100%. And I think... I'm sorry. A lot of it is, yeah, sure. Every kid has this disposition. You know, there are kids that you connect with more than others. You know, it's just like people, there are people, right? So there's people that you can have a constructive conversation with very easily, others where you can't, it just happens, right? And sometimes that happens between parents and their kid. Like they're not on the same page. They don't, their personalities don't match somehow. Like the mysteries of genetic, it doesn't flow. That happens. But I think a lot of the time it's honestly parents choosing the, uh, the easy option. It's like. If you're a lazy parent, well, your kid's gonna suck. I hate to say it, but that's just the way it is. You know, like diverting instead of confronting. When your kid does something bad, trying to divert their attention to something else, like no, you're not dealing with the issue.

[Ben Gibson]: 9:51

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 9:52

You are just being a weak-minded parent, just choosing the, and I'm very potent with my words and I understand this, but for me, it's laziness and weakness. No, grab your kid, look at him in the eyes, and be like. You didn't like something they did, they did something dangerous, be like, you will never do this ever again. And do you understand why? This and this and this. But then at the same time too, they do something awesome, be like, that was great, do you know why that was great? Well, because this and this and this, yeah, it takes time. But do this during the foundational years and then you'll be great later, you know, you'll be

[Ben Gibson]: 10:27

Yeah,

[Super Frenchie]: 10:27

in good shape. It's like having a puppy,

[Ben Gibson]: 10:28

right.

[Super Frenchie]: 10:28

man. If you don't lay down the law with your puppy right away, but you're so loving and constructive, your dog is gonna be out of control for the rest of its life. Unless

[Ben Gibson]: 10:36

Yes.

[Super Frenchie]: 10:36

it's like until it's an old dog and then it just doesn't have the energy to go. And I feel like kids are the same and at the same time too when they're little, they're so primal that it's literally, a big part of it is a dominant-dominator relationship, but it doesn't have to be an authoritarian kind of model either, you

[Ben Gibson]: 10:51

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 10:52

know, because it's very loving and there's, kids are smart, man. They can do, I think a lot of the issue too comes with, and I'm not an expert in parenting, I'm just sharing how I did it, right? But some people might disagree with me, but I think. Um, kids often can do a lot more than we think

[Ben Gibson]: 11:11

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 11:11

and understand a lot more than we think. Our duty

[Ben Gibson]: 11:13

Yep.

[Super Frenchie]: 11:13

is just to put it in words that they can understand or establish a frame that that is approachable for them. But, you know, my son just turned nine, uh, 10, sorry, you just turned 10. And, uh, but even, yeah, as a, you know, starting the age of five, we'd have some very deep conversation about some pretty serious subjects such

[Ben Gibson]: 11:30

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 11:30

as death or purpose or. meaning to your actions or to your life things like that like I'm some very philosophical existential conversations Maybe it's

[Ben Gibson]: 11:43

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 11:43

the French gene in there, but

[Ben Gibson]: 11:44

Ha-ha.

[Super Frenchie]: 11:45

we sometimes you throw concepts at me and be like wow that's actually a very very very analytical and Smart synthesis that you made of that chain of events

[Ben Gibson]: 11:57

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 11:58

And it's yeah, I mean my my friend Scott Bedbury. He was He lives in Ben. He was the advertising director of Nike. And, and he always said one of his, he was behind the original Just Do It campaign. He's just, he's just such a brilliant person. Definitely one of the most influential persons in my life. And, uh, and he always said one of his key concepts in marketing was, he always said, listen to the little people, you know, and when he did some consulting for Barbie and things like that, he would throw into the board of director meeting concepts that he, his daughter shared with him, you know, so it's like. It's not, you know, obviously your kid's gonna know more about toys than you, for example. So listen to them. Like they know so many more things than we actually do. And it's, it's evolution, right? Your kid is supposed to be better than you. So give them the tool to actually be instead of

[Ben Gibson]: 12:46

Yeah,

[Super Frenchie]: 12:46

being a hindrance.

[Ben Gibson]: 12:47

absolutely. They are absolutely way smarter. I really resonated with that in the in the transition

[Super Frenchie]: 12:53

Thank

[Ben Gibson]: 12:53

of

[Super Frenchie]: 12:53

you.

[Ben Gibson]: 12:54

my son not talking to then talking and hearing the things that he would start to try to say or especially once he fully started speaking, I was like, wow, like, you picked up on those things before you could even speak and you retained them and built upon them. So so especially with my second son, I was like, wow, I need to be so much more deliberate about the things that we're saying around him and the way that we're talking to him and sharing with him because he's already getting it. And I

[Super Frenchie]: 13:19

Yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 13:19

think starting, you know, getting a year of a heads up on those kinds of things makes such a world of difference. So,

[Super Frenchie]: 13:26

For sure.

[Ben Gibson]: 13:26

and I,

[Super Frenchie]: 13:27

And the... Oh, sorry, go for it. And

[Ben Gibson]: 13:29

I

[Super Frenchie]: 13:29

you.

[Ben Gibson]: 13:29

was gonna say, I really appreciate the potency by the way. I always say that like, I think if somebody hears something and they're offended by it, I think it's because inside, they know that there's truth to that for them. So yeah, we can be as potent as we absolutely need to. So.

[Super Frenchie]: 13:42

Perfect. Well, a lot of the time when you have heated reactions, it's because of self-projections of internal issues or problems or failure. And so it's not necessarily something to take personally. So we all got to remember also people have potent comments come from a certain experience that shaped the comments now. And the reaction is the same thing. It's based on our experiences. So I think there needs to be some pragmatism, not detachment, but pragmatism that needs to be applied to it, I think. You know? And yeah. So.

[Ben Gibson]: 14:20

Yeah,

[Super Frenchie]: 14:20

Ha ha ha. Ha

[Ben Gibson]: 14:21

absolutely.

[Super Frenchie]: 14:21

ha ha.

[Ben Gibson]: 14:21

I love it, man.

[Super Frenchie]: 14:22

So.

[Ben Gibson]: 14:22

That's awesome. I want to step back a bit and talk more about your work as an athlete as well. And especially for a lot of folks that, um, I, what I love is that you have so much crossover and you're mountaineering, your ski mountaineering, your skiing, and your base jumping and how you tie it all together that you definitely touch. A lot of different audiences, but for folks

[Super Frenchie]: 14:40

I'm

[Ben Gibson]: 14:40

that might not be totally,

[Super Frenchie]: 14:41

going

[Ben Gibson]: 14:41

uh, aware of the things that you do.

[Super Frenchie]: 14:43

to

[Ben Gibson]: 14:43

Uh,

[Super Frenchie]: 14:43

set my mic

[Ben Gibson]: 14:44

I

[Super Frenchie]: 14:44

into

[Ben Gibson]: 14:44

think

[Super Frenchie]: 14:44

a video

[Ben Gibson]: 14:44

first

[Super Frenchie]: 14:44

right here.

[Ben Gibson]: 14:44

off,

[Super Frenchie]: 14:44

I think

[Ben Gibson]: 14:44

a lot

[Super Frenchie]: 14:44

there's

[Ben Gibson]: 14:44

of

[Super Frenchie]: 14:45

still

[Ben Gibson]: 14:45

people

[Super Frenchie]: 14:45

a lot

[Ben Gibson]: 14:45

only see like the end result

[Super Frenchie]: 14:47

of

[Ben Gibson]: 14:47

of

[Super Frenchie]: 14:47

work

[Ben Gibson]: 14:47

what

[Super Frenchie]: 14:47

to do.

[Ben Gibson]: 14:47

you

[Super Frenchie]: 14:47

I think

[Ben Gibson]: 14:47

do,

[Super Frenchie]: 14:47

it's

[Ben Gibson]: 14:47

like

[Super Frenchie]: 14:47

going

[Ben Gibson]: 14:48

they see you

[Super Frenchie]: 14:48

to

[Ben Gibson]: 14:48

jumping

[Super Frenchie]: 14:48

be a

[Ben Gibson]: 14:48

off

[Super Frenchie]: 14:49

good

[Ben Gibson]: 14:49

a

[Super Frenchie]: 14:49

day.

[Ben Gibson]: 14:49

cliff.

[Super Frenchie]: 14:49

Can you see me jumping

[Ben Gibson]: 14:50

And the

[Super Frenchie]: 14:50

out?

[Ben Gibson]: 14:50

perception might just be like, Whoa, that's like reckless, but something that's very apparent when you, you know, watch your documentaries or talk to you is that there's a whole lot that goes into a climb. So you know, the, the jumping off the cliff is the end result. Then there's the whole working backwards to training, then working backwards to the planning and the preparation. And I think there's an even more interesting layer before that, which is like the beginning of when you have that idea come to your mind, and especially when you start like laying the laying the framework. with conversations with friends and family and like, Hey, this is what I want to do. And here's kind of what I'm thinking. So like, if you if you can help me understand, like, what is your process for identifying a goal, and then working out how you're

[Super Frenchie]: 15:33

like,

[Ben Gibson]: 15:33

actually going to manifest that into reality.

[Super Frenchie]: 15:38

conversation, and it's a way to get to the point where you just have to think it's like a little bit of a challenge, but you have to process it, or identify it, and then work it out, and how you actually go about this thing. inspiration or an idea or I'd like to do something like this and then you find the ground that is for example years ago I wanted to ski really a tight couloir and add a base jump to it and then I found a place to do it for example you know so we did heavens 11 in telluride in Colorado which was a 2 000 foot couloir that ended on a 300 foot cliff so I you know to ski the whole thing just technical fairly steep skiing in a narrow chute where sometimes like my body my skis were barely fit so I had to wiggle my back against the rocks to get

[Ben Gibson]: 16:15

Ha ha.

[Super Frenchie]: 16:15

So that's, and then I was able to tie that, for example, with an ad campaign for a sponsor at the time. So we could get funding for that. So a lot of the time I try to, on the business level, I try to align my dreams with business plans, if that makes sense, and goals and strategies from companies. And that's why I think people need to understand like being an athlete is more than just slapping on a logo and doing cool shit. It's being a multifaceted consultant. You're helping with marketing strategies, you're helping with constant creation. You are in advertising agency by them using you as a billboard in many ways too, athletes or a commodity, but you can transcend that role by being an advisor. And that's really what I try to do on a professional level. As far as other projects, for example, I did the first ski based jump. So I ski with a parachute on my back, jump off a big cliff, open a parachute and fly away. So I combined skiing and base jumping at once. And I really used that as a tool to ski things that had never been skied or to do first, right? But after picking the low hanging fruit, taking a lift, getting dropped by a helicopter, then I started climbing to access my cliffs. So that's when the mountaineering came into play. And then the climbing, you know, at first I was a ski racer. So then it was just adding skills to be able to not isolate disciplines, but have it be a journey through the mountains. So some projects take a while. You know, when I did the first ski base jump from the summit of Mont Blanc, it took me eight years to be able to do it, to wait for the right weather window, the right conditions, the right physical and mental state and preparation. And then when I did it, there was no cliff big enough to jump off from the summit of Mont Blanc, but there was an ice wall, a cerac. And so I jumped it in 2019, but in 2020 the cerac broke and you receded by like 100 feet, so I'll never be jumpable again. So it's also seizing the opportunity at the right time, establishing a frame of execution, how you narrow down. when you pull the trigger, when you near down or identify your window. And I think a lot of these skills I try to apply to my everyday life, which obviously I'm not a failure-proof or a life guru, so I can't do that efficiently every day. But I try to get inspiration from the way I'm able to do things in the mounds to apply to my daily life because doing it so much, the mounds are not easy, but the process feels very seamless because you just know how to do it, you know, and it's... It's still overwhelming sometimes, but I always try to remind the lessons that I learn in the mountains to apply to everyday life. So, so I think it's also, it starts with having the honesty to let yourself be inspired by your environment.

[Ben Gibson]: 18:44

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 18:44

And then, uh, sometimes I see a picture of a mountain and I'm like, Oh my God, that looks so beautiful. I want to

[Ben Gibson]: 18:50

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 18:50

do this. And a lot of the time I ended up doing first because, well, first it's not many people ski based jumping. And second of all, there's a lot of people that don't look to ski or jump. the things that I've been looking at, just having

[Ben Gibson]: 19:02

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 19:02

a different eyes, and not being a kind of one frame kind of skier. I'm not the guy skiing switch and doing flat spins 720s in the park. Like yeah,

[Ben Gibson]: 19:14

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 19:15

I used to do a lot of tricks 20 years ago, 15 years ago, like double backflips. I did a triple backflip once, but now I'm exploring a different approach to my craft. And I think that's... It's another quote from my friend Scott, you know, he said a great brand is a story that is never fully told Well, I think the same thing happens to the career of an athlete the career of an athlete always goes through different chapters you know and and it's part of the evolution and it's having the awareness to use every Every step as a stepping stone to the next step to the next

[Ben Gibson]: 19:46

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 19:46

level and I think that's big part of the process is Fully never disconnecting I'm always

[Ben Gibson]: 19:54

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 19:54

thinking of what I want to do. And it's not just searching for something. It's just really reflecting what I've done, what I would like to do and yeah, being inspired by my environment and then laying down. I've had the ability somehow to lay down a strategy or an approach or methodology to be able to reach those goals. So

[Ben Gibson]: 20:12

Hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 20:12

yeah, it comes with a lot of thorough step.

[Ben Gibson]: 20:15

Yeah, yeah, I totally

[Super Frenchie]: 20:16

Yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 20:16

feel you on the like seeing a specific peak or a specific section on a mountain. And it's almost like falling in love. There's something like the butterflies

[Super Frenchie]: 20:24

Yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 20:24

in your stomach. You're like, Oh, yeah, like, I wonder what that would be like, or Oh, yeah, that ridge and down through that cool war. Like, I wonder how how we could make that work. So yeah, I think it's a it's it's such a natural kind of visceral feeling. And so it sounds like you're really deliberate about constantly putting yourself into these opportunities to feel inspired to come up with ideas that can help you in that evolution of yourself as an athlete.

[Super Frenchie]: 20:52

Yeah, exactly. That was a point of contention, for example, with my ex. I think she saw it really as an opportunistic behavior, which could be good or bad, you know, but I don't think it's an opportunistic behavior. It's awareness and identifying your surrounding to be able to be fulfilled in many ways, you know, and it's not necessarily a selfish approach, just like being an approach of conscious self fulfillment, you know, also weighing in your actions compared to what it does for others, how will impact everything around you, like your family, like your friends, like your partners, your climbing partners, your friends that are guys, they're going to help you accomplish a project. It's a team effort. And that's what I try to really reflect. You know, I think a lot of people see just, or I did that for years, kind of the shock value of the raw factor of the jump, which I still share a lot, but now really break down the methodology, the ethos, the spirit, the philosophy behind it, and the steps to get there. And by sharing that journey, it's almost just as important, if not more, than just the jump itself or the ski descent. It's everything that leads to it. And so I think, yeah, there's obviously to identify opportunities, you got to have some of that. opportunistic mindset, but that doesn't necessarily make you an opportunist in the negative sense of the term when you're just using and abusing. Actually, I think it's more of an approach of respect because you have to keep it sustainable for yourself and others and also respectful for the environment that you evolve in, which is the mounds, the ski outdoor industry. If you're an asshole, well, the world will get by really, really quickly, and then no brands are going to want to work with you. That's just an example, you know, among others, but at the same time, brands are going to appreciate your ability to identify opportunities, which is what every business does. Right.

[Ben Gibson]: 22:55

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 22:55

And

[Ben Gibson]: 22:55

Sure.

[Super Frenchie]: 22:57

I think it's necessary to whatever you want to accomplish. You want to figure out that opening, that space that hasn't been filled or where there is something that could be added to that pyramid. Oh, there's a stone missing there. we could do that, you know, and I think it's um, it's identifying patterns more than anything else. Yeah,

[Ben Gibson]: 23:17

Yeah. And

[Super Frenchie]: 23:18

yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 23:18

I think it like, I am such a firm believer that physical pursuits sports, you know, what, whatever, however you want to label it, you know, are, are directly applicable to the rest of our lives. As you mentioned, tweets, it's, it's how we show up as an athlete helps us show up better as a dad. And so I think in, in these conversations where you're talking about, you're able to identify patterns, you're identifying, um, when the opportunity is right. Like I can't help it, but see that also benefiting you as a dad where it's like, Hey, this is I'm seeing this pattern with my son and I'm feeling like this is a really big opportunity for me to, to step in and to coach or to provide guidance or to correct or to love or whatnot. And especially if you're, if you're always staying on top of it, because I think the worst thing for, you know, one, I think the worst thing a parent can be is absent, but two, the worst thing I think that a parent can be is present, but not present. Like they're physically there, but they're not paying attention. And so what I hear is

[Super Frenchie]: 24:14

Yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 24:14

that if you're constantly. looking for these opportunities and feeling things out and reading the situation, you know, that's going to just help you execute on these things much better, much faster at the right time in all aspects of your life.

[Super Frenchie]: 24:29

Yeah, and I think it's going through the motions versus being in there. And I think for dads, it's also, we never really hear about the, I mean, the traumatic side of fatherhood because it is. The first few years, you're like, what the hell is this? Like you love your kid, but you, I mean, I personally experienced zero fulfillment from family life. I was just like at home being like, Oh God, you know, doing everything out of love and duty, but not necessarily out of... passion, or enthusiasm. But then eventually, as your kid gets through these early difficult years, but then when you get around the age of four or five, this is when you can really share. And I would say the first step when you have a passion is to live it, and the second step is to share it. And being able to then pass that on through, again, that relationship of mentorship, which I was talking about earlier, basic fatherhood holds nothing for me. putting food on the table and just a roof over your head. Yeah, it's very commendable, right? You're keeping your family safe and you're providing for them, but there's not really something rewarding for, maybe it's first world problems, right? Because we have access to so much more and we can focus more on purpose and existentialism versus basic survival, you know? It is a luxury, right? But at the same time, for me, really fatherhood finds its value into passing it on. Mantraship is, but it also requires for, for the dad to be a mentor, you also have to be accepted by your protege, which might not always be given. I'm lucky that I have that with my son. We are really, really close with this. I think that's a beautiful element of fatherhood, but for me, yeah, I don't really imagine fatherhood without this. But I think that's the same thing for dads listening today. Dude, you're going through the thick of it right now. Your kid is two and coming home and you're not connecting with your wife like you used to. And yeah, your short-term life has been, the short-term quality of your life has been hugely affected. But. as long as you and your partner can be completely vulnerable and approach each other with vulnerable connectivity, you will survive, you know, and if you don't, you will not survive. Yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 26:49

Yeah. Yes, that's such a common theme, especially in the early years of being a father, especially even even even the first few months, you know, you're told that, you know, becoming a dad or becoming a parent is like this life changing thing, the best day of your life. And I think a lot of dads are let down because especially in the first few

[Super Frenchie]: 27:06

Shit.

[Ben Gibson]: 27:06

months, there's there's not a lot that you can do for baby at all, baby wants nothing to do with you, you know, psychologically, mom and baby are like the baby doesn't see itself. detached from mom for like six months or something like that. And so you're basically having these big expectations that aren't being met because there's really nothing there's there's not a lot of personality being shown. There's no connection, you're almost just there, as you mentioned, like out of love and as a duty, but there there feels like there's this, like, relationship disconnect. And it isn't until they start to get older and their personality start to, to show up a bit, and you're able to start having those kinds of connections that I think the fulfillment really starts to kick in. And...

[Super Frenchie]: 27:48

Yeah, for sure. I think, sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you wanted to

[Ben Gibson]: 27:51

You're

[Super Frenchie]: 27:52

throw

[Ben Gibson]: 27:52

all good.

[Super Frenchie]: 27:52

something else. No, I was just thinking that I think it will, having a child is very polarizing. So if your couple is strong to begin with, it will reinforce that bond as long as you are openly vulnerable with the other person and sharing and listening and sharing, you know, and being able to communicate. there is some disconnect that you could be aware or not aware of, it will, you know, it will amplify the process. And so, I think in the end, having a child is to make it or break it for a relationship because you're going to fully know right there if you're as compatible as you thought you were, or actually if you weren't.

[Ben Gibson]: 28:37

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, nothing quite mixes things up like adding 100% more people into the equation.

[Super Frenchie]: 28:47

No, yeah, yeah exactly. I mean you're adding variables. He's gonna stress the system overall It's just

[Ben Gibson]: 28:51

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 28:51

you know basic math right and that's what's

[Ben Gibson]: 28:53

Sure.

[Super Frenchie]: 28:53

happening to the planet right now with overpopulation as well You know like having too many kids where we're saturating the planet You know

[Ben Gibson]: 28:59

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 28:59

and it's see a lot of I have a lot of friends that have you know three kids and they're doing a great job as parents, but You're more than multiplying yourself. So you're adding to the problem, you know,

[Ben Gibson]: 29:09

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 29:10

and it's it's having a child is a privilege and a luxury, you know,

[Ben Gibson]: 29:15

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 29:15

it's not necessarily a, it's not necessarily, it's going to be sound horrible to a lot of people. I think it's not necessarily a given right. Like your actions are going to impact directly the micro level of how this planet is functioning. So,

[Ben Gibson]: 29:28

Oh yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 29:28

you know, you, you, you driving an electric car because you don't want to have more impact on the environment or maybe you becoming vegan. that's debilitable too, but you know, you're being

[Ben Gibson]: 29:38

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 29:39

a vegan to not necessarily impact the environment, but you have four kids, well that's a very contradictory behavior,

[Ben Gibson]: 29:44

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 29:44

you know, but if you have one child and because you know you're gonna have to take 20 airplanes a year for work, well then, you know, I guess your carbon allowance, even though I hate to use that term, but like, well right there actually that's more sustainable, you know, because your overall impact has not been as multiplied as the way you think. And I really didn't really think about this until I had a child. And I started realizing the amount of waste with a kid through the whole diaper thing. And we did

[Ben Gibson]: 30:17

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 30:17

cloth diapers. So that was very sustainable. But I was like, you're realizing that if you have a baby, you're throwing away 20 plastic bags per day.

[Ben Gibson]: 30:27

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 30:30

Well, you have, you know, you have four kids. Well, then that's 80 plastic bags a day. You know, do you want to be that guy?

[Ben Gibson]: 30:40

Yeah, absolutely.

[Super Frenchie]: 30:41

God,

[Ben Gibson]: 30:41

Man.

[Super Frenchie]: 30:42

I'm gonna get so many haters after this conversation.

[Ben Gibson]: 30:45

Oh, no, not at all. You're speaking the truth, man. Dude, we had this like, this sickness in our stomach. So my son was born preterm, he's more 25 weeks. And so he was in NICU for four months. And we,

[Super Frenchie]: 30:55

Okay.

[Ben Gibson]: 30:55

in our lives have tried it tried to avoid plastic at like at all costs. And it was so hard because in four months of the NICU every single thing around him all hours of the day was plastic and it all got replaced every day. And so every day they're just like dumping heaps of full trash cans of plastic out and we're just like, Oh my god, like this is stressing me out because like there's no other option at the moment. You know, you

[Super Frenchie]: 31:19

Yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 31:19

can't have glass or wood, you know, it's, it's, it's just one of those things. So yeah, I think that more the more that people think about the same way of like, I need to, you know, help my kid be a good person because it impacts the world. I think they definitely need you know, how they're how they're impacting the environment with with the way that they're raising their kids as well. Am I buying them a bunch of plastic shit that's going to live in a in a dump for 2000 years? Or am I buying sustainable products? Am I trying to raise them in a sustainable way? Am I buying regenerative food so that so that there's, you know, healthy food that being eaten, but it's also good for the environment. So like, we could go down a whole rabbit hole, but I definitely think you're spot on. It's just another layer of how we need to think about the impact of our parenting on the future of the world.

[Super Frenchie]: 32:05

Yeah, you know, and it's not to draw a far-fetched parallel, but you know, with ski-based jumping, for example, you know, when I started ski-based jumping, we were throwing our poles. I was following, you know, the lead of established ski-based jumpers like Shane McConkey, Eric Roaner, and JT Holmes that were friends as well. So that was really cool, but so I didn't really, you know, ask any questions. I was skiing down, throwing my poles away to jump up, to have my hands clear, to deploy my parachute and fly

[Ben Gibson]: 32:31

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 32:32

it. But after like 20 or so ski base jumps, it's like, dude, I am littering every time I'm throwing. This big piece of metal is fine, but there is a lot of plastic, a lot of stuff that will never go away and that is left in the mountains forever. So then I started going to bamboo poles, but they started breaking with the cold. I made like a cork grip and the basket. I still had to use plastic on the basket. So then eventually I was able to put some mesonite on it, which is wood primarily with a little plastic in there, but it biodegrades a lot. But then yeah, poles were snapping. and then I didn't have the safety of a reliable pole, which again, like you have a kid in the NICU, you have to go through all this plastic for the survival of the child. I get that, you know? But could it be avoided? If no, well then keep doing this. But if you can avoid it, then maybe find a better option. So now for example, I'm able to ski-based jump and keep my poles, which adds an element of, which takes away some safety. So I had to fine tune a safe process in order to be able to do it. But now I figured it out after 15 years of ski-based jumping. So... you know, figure

[Ben Gibson]: 33:32

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 33:33

out how to fine tune and streamline your process so it can be less impactful than we already are.

[Ben Gibson]: 33:39

Yeah. I was wondering that was what, when I was watching some of your jumps is I was like, that's either the, the most well-done bamboo replica ski pole, or he's, he's literally using a bamboo stick with, with baskets on it.

[Super Frenchie]: 33:52

Yeah, I know for years I made my own poles, but then again, it was a question of safety. And I'm also sponsored by the best pole company in the world, LEKI, that makes World

[Ben Gibson]: 34:01

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 34:01

Cup poles. It was my

[Ben Gibson]: 34:02

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 34:02

first sponsor 19 years ago. It's crazy. And I was like, well, poles are probably one of the most underestimated piece of your equipment, but it's so major. Great ski poles add for your stability, being able to ski steep terrain. They add... There's so many technical... elements to having the right poles for skiing. And it's skis, boots, poles, and then your bindings as well. These are probably the most crucial piece of your equipment right there. All of them have to be solid. And I felt like I was, by trying to be sustainable, I was compromising on safety. I was like, nah, it's not cool. I gotta figure out a way to be able to keep my poles, but then not be an asshole and just litter at every jump because that's not

[Ben Gibson]: 34:45

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 34:45

cool. You know? Yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 34:47

Yeah, absolutely. I love the intentionality of it. And I think coming back to something you said before about, you know, we think about this impact of how we show up on our families on our kids. I think I think a lot of men a lot of dads, they they don't pursue their passions, their goals, their ambitions, at least maybe those that are like outside of their job. And and I think they don't because they use their families or their commitment to their families almost as like why it is more noble for them to invest 100% of their time and energy into their families, as opposed to taking time for themselves and finding what gives them fulfillment, what gives them, you know, a sense of satisfaction that helps them show up better. So why do you think more men, more dads don't go out and pursue their passions, pursue the things that really, really light them up?

[Super Frenchie]: 35:54

or that don't go out and you're too passionate about something? Or they just feel overwhelmed because they have so many things to do as a dad. And we put a lot of pressure on ourselves as dads. Moms are superheroes on the physical level, because they do all this stuff and emotional, but dads put so much mental pressure on themselves because you got to be there. You got to bring that paycheck home. You got to be able to keep paying that mortgage. You got to be able to pay for summer camps, all this stuff. Right. And we put so much pressure. I mean, it's the old saying from, I can't remember which philosopher said that. I think it was Marcus Aurelius that said, we suffer more in our thoughts than in reality. And a lot of the time we do that to ourselves. So I think that feeling of being overwhelmed. And then some guys like me, they're like, I'm never gonna compromise my life because this is my passion. That's what I wanna do. This is what I chose to dedicate my life with. And, but then it's not being a selfish prick either. It's being able to balance that with being there for your loved ones. That's why I was talking earlier about, there's an element of selfishness that is so necessary to be fulfilled. But selfishness, also if you look at the definition, which I think for years I was just defending selfishness, but then I realized that part of it was wrong because selfishness comes at the detriment of others too. So it's also finding that balance of conscious self-fulfillment. be there for yourself. You have to self-actualize as an individual first to be the father that you aspire to be. And if you do that, you will lead by example, but you'll also be there for your child by making space for yourself. It doesn't mean that you're forgetting about them. It means that you're walking that line between fulfillment, but also losing it all. You got to find, I always say that's where the fruit is. There's a great quote from Carl Jung that says, the greatest strategy of the family is the unlived lives of the parents. Unlived life. What are you teaching your kid? Your kid will replicate the same pattern of metrioptery and frustration

[Ben Gibson]: 38:00

Yes.

[Super Frenchie]: 38:01

That's not a way to live a life You know your kid will be a worm teach your kid how to be a freaking eagle, you know,

[Ben Gibson]: 38:07

Hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 38:07

so That's

[Ben Gibson]: 38:08

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 38:08

it. Maybe that's a strong american analogy of the american eagle, but you know,

[Ben Gibson]: 38:13

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 38:13

uh, yeah teach your kid to be a mountain goat I guess, you know

[Ben Gibson]: 38:17

That's amazing. I mean,

[Super Frenchie]: 38:18

Or

[Ben Gibson]: 38:18

that's

[Super Frenchie]: 38:18

a mountain

[Ben Gibson]: 38:19

the hot.

[Super Frenchie]: 38:19

nine agile and adaptable that's it,

[Ben Gibson]: 38:21

There

[Super Frenchie]: 38:21

you know

[Ben Gibson]: 38:21

you go. Yes. Yes. The mountain. Now I think your resident Yeah, the eagle the mountain lion, we can we can find find the right analogy for it. But that's the hardest part is that translation, right? And especially, you know, you've been asked a lot about this idea of are my pursuits? selfish? Are they are they unnecessarily risky? And I even think of somebody like Marcus Aurelius, where I think his son was Caligula, who was like this horrible human being who you know, by all accounts, Marcus Aurelius, you would have thought he would have just actually absolutely slayed as a dad by all of these

[Super Frenchie]: 38:52

Ha!

[Ben Gibson]: 38:52

like stoic philosophies. And it turns out that his, the way he influenced his kid with stoicism led his son to be gluttonous and greedy and want to do the opposite of the stoic lifestyle. So when I think about these things that we find fulfillment in, and that may be self-serving, but not selfish, or I think if that's how you put it, how do we translate what might be considered self-serving into something that's actually positive for our families, for our people around us.

[Super Frenchie]: 39:24

Well, I don't actually know if I like the terminology self-serving because you're serving yourself, which means that you're making abstraction of the environment or others. I think it's finding against the balance between fulfillment, self-actualization, while being there for others. There will always be some trade-off. Okay, because I'm going to go and... Spent 10 hours or 14 hours training in the mountains today so I can be safe to accomplish my goal Which will result in my professional success so I can maybe take my kid And travel to France next summer, you know, so but while I'm in the mountains for 14 hours Well, I can't bring him to his Jiu-jitsu or kickboxing a skateboarding practice, right? So you figure it out, right? But in the end it's yeah I guess it's always a question of trade-off rights, you know in balancing and it's I think it's reaching that equilibrium. I think for me always, you know, I really came to realize probably in the last, especially a year or two, that I really strive on an everyday basis to live a life of passion, purpose and pragmatism. which I guess would be my philosophical, but on an existential level, I guess that's my philosophical triangle of passion, purpose, pragmatism. And if I extrapolate this to an existential triangle, you know... existentialism, for people listening that might not be necessarily familiar with it, is finding a meaning to your existence in a meaningless life. In many ways, there's no meaning to life, but what is the meaning to your life? Well, that's existentialism in a nutshell, I guess, if I summarize it very rashly. But really, for me, the three elements of that existential triangle is true love, my vocation, which I chose to dedicate my life to, and obviously fatherhood, you know. And Whatever triangle you find, you have to keep it equilateral. So each side has to be equal to the other. And it's going to fluctuate, right? Sometimes one side will take over the other, but it's always that balancing act or bringing it back to that leveled center. And if you can do that, then yeah, you will be able to carve out your own place in the world while being able to help people you love carve out their own. I think it's... The three elements there, I think it's to find and affirm your place in the world as an individual, to maximize self-actualization, to reach fulfillment as a person, eventually maybe even transcendence, which is the top of the pyramid of Maslow. And then third, to prevent personal blooming to come at the expense of someone else. So it's always balancing these three things.

[Ben Gibson]: 42:18

Hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 42:18

And that's why I really work on, I was talking about that with my partner on the phone today, you know, it's... because yeah, you know, she was like, yeah, it's something more than selfishness, because selfishness has that notion of coming out at the expense of somebody else. I'm like, yeah, that's not cool. But

[Ben Gibson]: 42:34

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 42:34

it's that these elements of finding conscious self-fulfillment, and that ultimately is the best lesson you can teach your kid how to be fulfilled. Because happiness, everybody talks about, I just want to be happy, you know, fuck happiness in many ways, just as fuck

[Ben Gibson]: 42:50

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 42:51

sadness. These are emotions that are very beautiful or very painful, but they come and go, it's ephemeral.

[Ben Gibson]: 42:56

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 42:57

It doesn't last forever. But fulfillment does. If you're fulfilled and you accomplish and you're proud of what you've done, you will still remember it on your deathbed at 90 years old.

[Ben Gibson]: 43:07

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 43:08

It was in that state of dying on your deathbed, you might not necessarily be happy, but can you be elated from living a fulfilled life?

[Ben Gibson]: 43:17

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 43:17

Well, that's the question. In the end, we can only hope for two things, whatever it means to you. a beautiful life and a beautiful death, whatever that means to you.

[Ben Gibson]: 43:31

Yeah, I love it. It's yeah, whatever it means to you and making sure that that's sort of the litmus test of how am I navigating the world? Am I, am I doing this because I feel this is what society is telling me I should be doing or my parents are telling me or, or how I feel like I think I should be showing up as a kid or is this because this is ultimately my truth that I'm pursuing? And I even think you nailed it with like, I want to be happy. Like, man, if you ask most parents, what do you want for your kids? They're like, Oh, I just want my kids to be happy. It's like, I don't. I want them to be happy, but I don't want them to just be happy. I want them to

[Super Frenchie]: 44:02

Yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 44:03

navigate every emotion. Fulfillment requires some suffering, some stress, some setbacks, some sadness. There's a lot that is the fuel that can generate fulfillment. I actually want them to be adaptable.

[Super Frenchie]: 44:20

Yeah,

[Ben Gibson]: 44:20

I want them to

[Super Frenchie]: 44:20

yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 44:20

be able to navigate all these things. How do you think about how do I help my kid? be adaptable and seek that fulfillment through adaptability.

[Super Frenchie]: 44:33

I think it's, it's, uh, are two things, self-awareness and, um, awareness of your surroundings, which being aware of your place in the world and the impact of the world on you. So there's a two constant variable that we're confronting and that's the two variables that I confront in the mountains all the time. You don't conquer a mountain, the mountain tolerates you. You're

[Ben Gibson]: 44:58

I'm gonna go to bed.

[Super Frenchie]: 44:59

trying to have your fulfilling experience in a hostile and threatening environment. So you have to take into account yourself and you have to take into account the environment. So, you have to take into account yourself and you have to take into account the environment. So, you have to take into account yourself and you have to take into account the environment. Pretty much that's it, you know. Is it complicated? Yeah. If it's complex, then maybe step away from it because then you can't evaluate all the variables. But if it's complicated, then work on simplifying it. It's difficult, but

[Ben Gibson]: 45:32

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 45:33

it's complicated to find the simple, but once you have the simple, it simply is. Just like a relationship. You know.

[Ben Gibson]: 45:41

Yeah. Yeah. And it's, I think it's a kind of a constant pursuit of that distillation into simplicity. Like you're it's, it's, I find it very rarely get it there. And as soon as I have it, my environment may change or I change my, my self changes. And now all of a sudden I have new constraints, new beliefs, new truths, and, and I have to read distill what, what was. once simple, now complex again, back down to simplicity. And I think that's kind of where I, at least I find fulfillment is a lot of that, that I'm never done. It's, I'm not committed to an end, an outcome. I'm committed to that process of it. And I love that you have this very like philosophical approach to the way that you show up as a human, but also as an athlete. I think there's a lot of people that have that conquer, the mountain mindset, which I always thought was just like, it's kind of silly, but I think that, you know, coming at it with this very, I don't know if spiritual is the right approach, but philosophical approach where the way I always put it is climbing was so important to me because the person that went up the mountain was not the same person that came down the mountain. That's why it was so important for me. Oftentimes after climbs, it would take me weeks or months to really figure out what that particular climb meant for me. I would find myself just deep in thought, in introspection. What does your process look like for having that introspective conversation with yourself where you sort of like tease out the meaning of these endeavors for you.

[Super Frenchie]: 47:12

Well, there's several elements in what you just talked about. First of all, you think you're covering your place in the world and figuring out how to do it, to be able to do what you do. We're always going through this process of becoming to actually be in a short moment. And that constant process of becoming that lead to the state of being is exactly what happens in the mountains. But you know. I always quote the doctor from my hometown in the Alps that is an avid mountaineer and he says, I go up with questions and I come back with answers. Cause we have, when you span, you know, just here, go up South sister. It's going to take you between. Depending on the type of athletes you are between three hours and six hours to get to the summit. What do you do for six hours or for potentially six hours? You think you're reaching that state of. oxygenation of your body, you being related with the altitude as well, and you clearing your mind and you connecting, you are, all thoughts are booming in your head. You have that privilege of introspection. It is a privilege, but then as you come back, you connecting the dots forever and conceptualizing. And that's why I say that. What I do is not just skiing or base jumping. It's a philosophical quest. It's active philosophy put in action. But a lot of people adopt these preconceived ideas and concepts, just like, you know, conquering the mound or I just want to be happy, or I'm a dear devil. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You are having a shallow, potential, disrespectful approach to your craft. Take the time to... ponder the why and how and use the accurate words to describe what you're doing, which is an ongoing, endless process. Therefore, philosophical, because philosophy never ends.

[Ben Gibson]: 49:08

Yes, absolutely. I love that. Yeah, philosophy into action, philosophy in motion. So cool. And I think that you have quite a bit going on when you think about your philosophy in motion. You not just do things in the mountains, but you've also begun surfing and big wave surfing at that. I'm so curious, you've been surfing off the Oregon coast. How

[Super Frenchie]: 49:31

Yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 49:31

does all this set a tie together for you as an athlete?

[Super Frenchie]: 49:35

I luckily learned to surf when I was 11. My parents sent me to a friend's house and you know my again my my mother was not necessarily nurturing and she just I think had kids for social status you know

[Ben Gibson]: 49:48

Hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 49:49

and self-positioning and

[Ben Gibson]: 49:50

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 49:50

we were kind of pawns to her so every time it was summer she generally she wanted to go play golf or tennis and didn't necessarily want to take care of her kids so she sent us to different places on her own. And uh So she sent me to the US when I was nine by myself and a family I'd never met. But then it was great because it just allowed me to adapt. And 11, I just found myself in the Indian Ocean on an island called Mauritius for a month with family friends and they had a kid a couple years older than me, he was 13, he was 11. So they just took me surfing every day. So after three weeks of going to the beach, seven in the morning to seven at night with a little Nutella sandwich to survive, then I just learned to surf. And so then I always kind of kept surfing recurringly. When I moved to Oregon, I started surfing more and more. Then I was living in Portland for a year and a half, so I was surfing probably more than I was skiing. And then I always wanted to surf big waves. I had three dreams as a kid. One was to surf at least a 10 meter wave. The other one was to base jump. The other one was to jump at least a 30 or a hundred foot cliff on skis, which obviously I had done all the other ones, except surf a big, big wave. I had paddled maybe 15 foot faces, so I could handle that. And physically, I think a lot of training from skiing translate into... Except from upper body strength, but if you do a lot of rock climbing they will translate well into surfing for example so I got back into climbing a lot for my mountaineering approaches, but After I broke my femur in 2013. I was really struggling to surf for my takeoffs It was really hard to move my hip to get my leg on the board. It was super frustrating being it Maybe it's audacious to see an expert surfer, but yeah being able to surf fairly well and then all of a sudden You know I was like shit But I really want to tow surf. And I got a tow board made that arrived after I had my crash. I was like, well, let's go. And I had contacts with the guys at the Oregon coast. And they saw my base jumping and skiing videos. And they were like, oh, man, if you can handle this, you can handle surfing big waves. It's a lot less dangerous. It's like, that's actually very true. It's very dangerous. But nobody has died technically tow surfing. People died paddling big waves.

[Ben Gibson]: 51:50

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 51:52

And the Oregon coast has really big and big waves. powerful waves but they're not as heavy as like a mavericks or a jaws and things like that. So it's even though it's very big moving water it's very dangerous but if you do it same thing there's got to be a methodology of risk and how to approach it. So I went and trained with the guys a couple times and they told me how to do it and I just went out there and did it

[Ben Gibson]: 52:12

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 52:12

and I just literally followed the direction and last thing I know I'm surfing a 35-foot wave going 40 miles per hour and I'm like oh wow this feels just like big mountain skiing it's just riding a big face. So Unfortunately, I don't surf as much as I would like. It's kind of funny because the guys at Nelska Reef, they always make fun of me because I arrived when there's big waves, they give me a call and I show up at the beach, they're like, hey, Frenchie, how you doing? We haven't seen you in a while. You've been surfing? When's the last time you surfed? I was like, last year here at Nelska. They were like, wait, you haven't surfed in a year? Last time you surfed was like a 30 foot wave. I'm like, yeah, pretty much. So every time I just come in and get thrown

[Ben Gibson]: 52:47

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 52:47

into the lines and then just go and surf massive waves. I mean, I'd say it's 30, you know, it's not like a 60 foot or 50 foot wave, but it's still big enough to really put you back in your place. But luckily,

[Ben Gibson]: 52:57

Oh dude, yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 52:58

I'm also able to do it with the guidance of very well seasoned surfers. You know,

[Ben Gibson]: 53:03

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 53:03

so it's, I

[Ben Gibson]: 53:04

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 53:04

can't really call myself a big wave surfer. I just, I occasionally dabble in it. So,

[Ben Gibson]: 53:10

I love

[Super Frenchie]: 53:10

yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 53:10

that. I just occasionally dabble in 30, 30 foot waves. That's awesome. But I do see the crossover. Like when I, I'm a better skier, when I when I think about skiing with the fluidity of surfing, and I feel the terrain, like it's like water, and all of a sudden, everything just kind of like, clicks into place. And I do also think that, you know, going down a steep run, and dropping in on a wave have the same feeling of like commitment, like dropping in on a wave and going committing down the line on a steep face, to me at least feel very similar. And then especially as again, the fluidity of carving. So I imagine, you've gotten some, you've surfed some big powder on a mountain that probably translates pretty well over to the water.

[Super Frenchie]: 53:53

Oh yeah, for sure. And the thing is, I think, you know, you put me in like a five-foot swell or four-foot waves, you know, like I'm not gonna be the guy snapping a bunch of, you know, naughty turns and catching air during 360s. Yeah, I'll be able to do like a little floater and snap a turn and carve back. And, you know, I've ran a couple barrels here and there, but I'm not like, every time I get out of it, I'm like, oh my God, I'm so lucky, I should have done that. It's not like, I'm like, you know, I'm not, I'm nowhere, like, I'm not a Kaileni by any means, but I mean, I know how to ride a board. So. That's the thing. But I think a lot of technical surfers that perform extremely well in small waves, with their short boards, snapping, crazy tricks in small waves, when you put them on a big wave, they're overwhelmed because first of all, the size, but also the speed. And they are not used to riding 40 plus miles per hour and having this vibration, that speed in your legs. Skiing. 45 miles per hour is your normal cruising speed at all times. When I charge Big Mountain, you're going 60, 70 miles per hour. And you learn to be really calm and chill at high speed, which is why I think big wave surfing in many ways is way more like skiing than just regular surfing, because it's learning to operate and stay cool at high speed on a big, it's a big moving mountain, but it's like almost riding Big Mountain with sluff around you. You know, it's like that's when you're right down a steep face and it's sloughing, you have to figure out your lines so you don't get caught in the slough which is almost like whitewash on the wave. And you have to learn to chill and not overexert yourself when you're going at high speed while absorbing the terrain. So the muscle memory and power that you develop in your legs from skiing translates very well into big wave surfing.

[Ben Gibson]: 55:39

Yeah, that's great. I wanna talk a bit about your most recent film, Adrenaline Sucks, and then I would love to hear

[Super Frenchie]: 55:45

Yeah

[Ben Gibson]: 55:45

more about what's next for you. So yeah, please tell me about the film.

[Super Frenchie]: 55:49

Adrenaline sucks is boring because it's very philosophical. I had my movie Super Frenchie that was made by Chase Hogdan several years ago. It portrayed pretty much my journey as an athlete, but I had no creative input in the movie. There was 90% of the movie that I can stand behind, 10% where I'm not necessarily I'm not displeased, but I'm not as pleased either by it, and then Chase approached me again last year, a year and a half ago, and he teaches film at Eastern Washington University, and he wanted to produce one more piece to get his PhD in filmmaking. And he was like, hey man, so I would love to make another outdoor movie. Do you have any ideas? And I'm like, well, it's actually funny you said that because I had just written a letter called The Drowning Sucks. It was more like an open letter of confession, which aims at breaking down the concept of the adrenaline junkie. Again, a preconceived idea, like terminology that would just regurgitate mindlessly. Like people saying they conquer a mountain or they just, oh, I just want happiness. It's like athletes calling themselves a daredevil. It's like, no, you're not putting in the time and thought to describe why you do this. And if you truly do it for the rush, you're probably gonna be too, you're gonna burn out or be too scared at some point, too hurt, or you'll be dead. So it's just the way it is. It's not as sustainable. Why do you do what you do? Take the time to ponder on this. And so I did that because I was tired of people calling me an adrenaline junkie. At the same time, I realized I couldn't get mad at the audience for calling me a daredevil because the images are shocking. I get it, you know? I'm jumping off a 600 foot cliff with an avalanche bearing behind and flying away in a parachute. I mean, that comes out of a straight James Bond movie and I get it, it's completely kooky. When I look back at the images, I'm like, I can't really believe I did this by looking at the images. But while I was in the action, it completely made sense, right? And so I was like, okay, I know I can translate my thoughts and feelings fairly accurately with words, so I gotta put in the time to describe my ethos of risk, the reason why and how I take a risk. And that's how Adgeron and Sucks was born. So when Chase called me, I was like, actually I just wrote that letter and it can totally be used as a script. It would be an open letter, this and that, I explain kind of what I envisioned. He's like, oh man, actually I like the idea. I was like, well, and also have all the images, all the videos we can use to, So I'll just send you a bunch of hard drives and I'll send you the open letter. I'll record myself reading it and we can fine tune it together. And after reviewing all the content, he's like, man, we got this. Let me just work on this. Then

[Ben Gibson]: 58:21

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 58:21

he worked on a bunch of different cuts. After a few months, we both liked the final cut that we had. So he came to Ben and we recorded the letter in my garage right here. Just, you know, put a black screen behind, put some fancy lighting on and. I could read the letter on a prompter, but in a very, not just reading like yesterday, I went to, you know, like reading in an intentional and thoughtful way. And so it breaks down the ritual, the sense, the truth, every element of how I do what I do, and most importantly, why. And the

[Ben Gibson]: 58:55

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 58:55

purpose behind this is not only to break that cliche of the adrenaline junkie, it's to make people think of their own ethos. their own risk and their own endeavor, you know? And hopefully my process can be, I think human patterns in a certain environment or the same patterns as another discipline, the only thing that changes are the variables. So

[Ben Gibson]: 59:19

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 59:19

hopefully people can extract some pieces of knowledge from that to be able to develop their own methodology to reach their audacious and unforgiving goals, you know?

[Ben Gibson]: 59:29

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 59:30

So that's the idea behind Adrenaline Sucks. It's also a 12 minute movie. So I can't just

[Ben Gibson]: 59:35

Thank you.

[Super Frenchie]: 59:37

go around and just charge people to come and watch a 12 minute movie. I mean, it's too short, right? And that's what I need to add more to it. So Adrenaline Sex, by the way, is doing really well on the film festival circuit all over the world,

[Ben Gibson]: 59:50

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 59:51

except we're gonna be featured at the National New Zealand Film Festival. We were just at the Berlin Mountain Film Festival. We've had over 50 stops in Europe. We've had a few festivals in the US, but

[Ben Gibson]: 1:00:04

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 1:00:04

I just did a couple showings in band where I'm kind of fine-tuning the process But I'm gonna go into an adrenaline sucks tour where we have, you know video intro that you know traces the whole journey and you know intro to the movie the movie and then a Talk after that and then an open conversation. My goal is

[Ben Gibson]: 1:00:24

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 1:00:25

to have a constructive conversation have it evolve through time and for people to hopefully understand, but also reflect. So understand my approach, but then also reflect on their own pursuits and endeavors. And then maybe we can reflect on it together. I don't have all the answers, but I am hoping that, again, first step is to live your passion. The second step is to share it. By sharing it, I hope I can start a positive spiral of introspection and self-actualization.

[Ben Gibson]: 1:00:57

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 1:00:57

Sounds

[Ben Gibson]: 1:00:57

I love

[Super Frenchie]: 1:00:57

maybe

[Ben Gibson]: 1:00:58

it.

[Super Frenchie]: 1:00:58

a little arrogant and pompous, but that's what I'm trying to do.

[Ben Gibson]: 1:01:01

It's, it's authentic, man. I love it. And if I could just insert, you've been so generous with your time. If I could just insert one more question in on that. I think this idea of you writing letters has been really important. You wrote a really impactful letter to your son. Um, but for going to Paul, I'm going to totally butcher their pronunciation. Paul, they all, I'm not, I'm

[Super Frenchie]: 1:01:20

Pointe,

[Ben Gibson]: 1:01:20

not saying

[Super Frenchie]: 1:01:20

yeah, so

[Ben Gibson]: 1:01:20

that.

[Super Frenchie]: 1:01:21

Pointe d'Arreux, which means the needle of A-R-E-U,

[Ben Gibson]: 1:01:24

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 1:01:26

and that's where I had a big accident in 2013. I hit the cliff a bunch of times. I had a brain hemorrhage, double or triple fracture on my femur. I spent three days in a coma. It's three weeks before the birth of my son. It was horrible.

[Ben Gibson]: 1:01:36

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 1:01:36

It's kind of what started a whole wave of personal changes as well in

[Ben Gibson]: 1:01:41

Yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 1:01:41

my life. Before going back to skiing that mountain again, it took me six years, but before going back, I felt like I needed to write my son a letter, so I wrote him a very intentional letter that he could understand as a five-year-old at the time, but also if I weren't to come back, that he could understand as a 20-year-old. And so the idea was to leave something behind, substantial for my son, instead of just a bunch of cool videos on the internet, or random stories about his dad that they would hear through other people. So I did that and he was very liberating to do this because he'd helped me commit to my goals. You know, I always say that you take a risk helping your loved ones understand why you take a risk will help you commit. And that's exactly what that letter did for me. And so I think, yeah, I'm not a writer but I try to spend time writing. I'm slowly, very slowly working on a book as well. And it's... I think it's important to do that. And I think every parent should do that because again, we're not just parents putting food on the table. We're mentors or duty is to guide our children. You know, so,

[Ben Gibson]: 1:02:47

I

[Super Frenchie]: 1:02:47

and

[Ben Gibson]: 1:02:47

think

[Super Frenchie]: 1:02:47

there's

[Ben Gibson]: 1:02:47

that's

[Super Frenchie]: 1:02:47

nothing

[Ben Gibson]: 1:02:47

such a,

[Super Frenchie]: 1:02:47

better than the letter for that. So.

[Ben Gibson]: 1:02:49

yeah, it's such a great practice. One of our previous guests was rowing across the Atlantic and they were about to get caught in this crazy storm and he didn't know if they were going to make it. And so he also wrote this letter. So I'd love this theme of before these really critical moments of our lives is like pausing and writing down these truths, these beliefs, these thoughts from the heart to our, our, our kids and our families, you know, about Um, you know, where we are today. And I think it's to your point, uh, a healthy practice that I think people should probably put into place more deliberately over the course of their life. Because I imagine if you wrote that letter today, it might be different. If you wrote that letter 10 years from now, it might be a little different, but, um,

[Super Frenchie]: 1:03:28

Yeah,

[Ben Gibson]: 1:03:29

yeah, such a great practice.

[Super Frenchie]: 1:03:30

I think I need to write a new letter because I think it's writing several letters and then necessarily discarding the one you wrote before things evolve, right, but you

[Ben Gibson]: 1:03:37

Mm-hmm.

[Super Frenchie]: 1:03:37

know, it's Life will kill you no matter what whether you do dangerous things whether you operate in dangerous environment or not life will kill you What are you gonna leave behind for you kid? you know, and it's I'm not even talking about the legacy of this or that just give them some tools so they can operate as thoroughly and as efficiently in their life and more than this to actually hopefully be fulfilled as well. You know it's you know whatever you learn along the way maybe put the tools in your in your in your child's hand you know so they can empower their life as well. That's just as simple as that and also if you were to have a car crash or a dive base jumping of a mound or whatever it is you know life throws some pretty crazy stuff. I mean it's just there's a lot of unforeseeable events in life, it's just the way it is right. But if you can live something substantial for your child, I mean that's that's really powerful you know

[Ben Gibson]: 1:04:34

Yeah,

[Super Frenchie]: 1:04:34

so yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 1:04:35

absolutely. And where where can people watch the film if they wanted to watch it today? Is it going to be streaming?

[Super Frenchie]: 1:04:42

So at Drowning Sucks, we're gonna, it's probably not gonna be streaming for another year and a half because we're heavy in the film festival circuit right now, and the film festival circuit always take a couple years. So hopefully we'll have other showings in band. I will advertise that on my social media. So Instagram is probably the best. My handle is at superfrenchieofficial. Pretty easy to remember and find. But I will, yeah, I'm working on... Hopefully you're showing in Portland, maybe Seattle, Denver. So I'm going to start taking this on the road. But then also, if people are interested, we also have the ability to do private showings. I do a lot of speaking engagements for companies. So corporate speaking is very, very important. And if someone out there has a company and they want to do a Drowning Sucks showing, then we can totally do that as well. So yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 1:05:32

Awesome. That's great. Love it. Lastly, what's next for you? Where are you headed? What are you working on?

[Super Frenchie]: 1:05:37

So I am here for another, what, three weeks. I'm pulling on my calendar right now. One, two, three. Yeah, I'm leaving in three and a half weeks. I'm going back to the Alps for three weeks to hopefully knock out another, at least, one first. I have a never-ending list of things at home that I'm trying to accomplish. So I go back to the Alps several times a year, at least three times a year. And, uh... So yeah, going back to finish that, then I'm climbing Mont Blanc, hopefully if the weather works out, middle of June. And with my partner, because she's in France, but we'll see, weather depending, anything can happen when you go up a mountain, somebody can get sick, the weather can move in, we'll see what happens. So we are aiming for this, but it's also then I'll be skiing the north face of Mont Blanc and stringing a pure ski mountaineering mission with also we'll have two parties of people guiding, climbing in my close mountain. partner from the Alps is coming with us too. So we're gonna have a little night party but join the Ascent in Mont Blanc which would be great. And after that, weather-dependent again, I might do a couple of winksie jumps in the Alps too and then I'm back in Benz. So then it will be already end of June and then I'm going back to France for three weeks with my son to do a vacation together. And I've never spoken English with my son, we only speak French together. So actually... Correct that I spoke English once with him in France because I was scouting and illegal base jump and he helped me do it So I had to speak English to him. So nobody would understand But I've already spoken French to him So this way it's for him to to go back to you know, he's dual citizens So for him to go back to to the homeland and spend time at home

[Ben Gibson]: 1:07:15

That's so awesome. I love that. Well, Mathias, this has been amazing. Such a great conversation. I've personally taken away tons of nuggets from this and I'm so excited to follow along the journey. I've tried to see Adrenaline Sucks twice in bend and my kids got sick both times. And so it was unfortunate that I still have not seen the film, but I'm committed to seeing it if you come back around. So,

[Super Frenchie]: 1:07:37

Oh, yeah, I'll keep you posted if we have another

[Ben Gibson]: 1:07:39

yeah.

[Super Frenchie]: 1:07:39

showing in band We we find tuning a couple things before taking that on the road, you know, and uh, and then but yeah I'll let you know on dates and i'm actually really excited because People can do whatever they want with the message, but I could I could say the story in my own terms and I guess that's what art is It's you don't do it to necessarily please people you do it to make a statement and that movie for me is a very powerful statement where every word in this piece is is pondered you know I really reflected on every single word to be able to it's to do it just as potently you know it's uh it's got a lot in there and it's uh it's almost you you know having a written version of it would probably help understand every word but to watch it is because it's a short movie you know if uh i'm hoping people can watch it several times and still extract pieces of of nuggets that will maybe empower their lives in many ways too, I'm hoping so. But anyway, I'm really happy about this movie because it's just, I is my truth, it's the way it is. And it feels good to share your truth hopefully and hopefully will help others. So.

[Ben Gibson]: 1:08:48

Yeah, absolutely, man. Yeah, super pumped for that. Thank you so much for the time. I really appreciate it and looking forward to following along on the journey.

[Super Frenchie]: 1:08:56

Awesome Ben thanks for good conversation it's great to have the opportunity to do that especially with other dads and I think what you're doing is great because I think this may be male pride or guardedness I don't know what it is but people don't necessarily talk openly what it actually really is like to be a dad and again it's we just use blanket statement oh it's great to be a dad I love my kid it's family life is awesome it's like no break it down man break it down What's the reality? What's the truth behind this? Or what's your truth? How did you live this? Because I was really hard for me as a dad struggling through the experience now of just being a dad with a whole family life thing, changing things around, also had my crash before that. I reached out to a couple of friends, but nobody opened up about their own experience in fatherhood, you know? And I think it's, and I just heard, you know, through fatherly actually, I do a lot of... events and articles with these guys and things like that. And they had a piece recently that was written on postnatal depression on dads, which we never talk about. We always talk about post-portal depression for the mom, which is huge. But for dads, it can last two to seven years after your child is born. Nobody talks about it. So I think it's definitely something that needs to be approached a lot more because A lot of dads could avoid that state of existential despair.

[Ben Gibson]: 1:10:30

Yeah. Yeah. We try to get to the real shit, man, and just be

[Super Frenchie]: 1:10:33

Yeah.

[Ben Gibson]: 1:10:33

as as transparent as possible. And men need that community more than ever to show up as the best men as best as they can. So I really appreciate that. And yeah, glad we've got this, this community established my brother and looking forward to again, staying in touch and following the journey along.

[Super Frenchie]: 1:10:49

Awesome. Take care, man. All right, success.